Why
Is
This
Forum
Eating
Whitespace
New
Lines
And
Paragraph
Breaks?
What you see is not what you get here. Why? Will you finally fire those incompetent developers who are meddling with this forum making it more and more unusable with each new version?
Hello Igor,
Can you add a screenshot of what you expect to see and what you are seeing? What browser are you using?
Regards, Hal G
Intel(R) Developer Zone Support
http://software.intel.com
*Other names and brands may be claimed as the property of others.
1. What I am seeing now is not the same what I was seeing.
2. I am using latest official Firefox
3. I wanted to upload the screenshot as an attachment but I keep getting this error:
An AJAX HTTP request terminated abnormally.
Debugging information follows.
Path: /en-us/file/ajax/field_attachments/und/form-1UhRO9s4p0VmwTLiL4wcWtCSjHhH5TiulKQHR-v-0OE
StatusText: n/a
ResponseText:
Error
The website encountered an unexpected error. Please try again later.
if(!NREUMQ.f){NREUMQ.f=function(){NREUMQ.push(["load",new Date().getTime()]);var e=document.createElement("script");e.type="text/javascript";e.async=true;e.src="https://d1ros97qkrwjf5.cloudfront.net/42/eum/rum.js";document.body.appendChild(e);if(NREUMQ.a)NREUMQ.a();};NREUMQ.a=window.onload;window.onload=NREUMQ.f;};NREUMQ.push(["nrf2","beacon-1.newrelic.com","aca265f578",682579,"ZlADZEtYCxJQBU0KC18aIFNNUAoPHgBQDwFuVAtRQWYQEV0JWAc=",0,232,new Date().getTime()]);ReadyState: undefined
What is weird it seems like the file was uploaded in the end.
4. Why are PNG files not allowed when for screenshots they take less space and have better quality than JPEG?
Here is what I was seeing when I created this topic:
It seems that some of the issues (namely paragraph breaks and new lines) were fixed in the meantime.
However, there is still a lot of wasted space in each post and ugly formatting (for example in this post the post header line starting below my black belt icon instead in line and right of the photo).
5. I didn't check whether I can edit my signature now but last time I tried it didn't work.
| Fichier attaché | Taille |
|---|---|
Téléchargement  forum-formatting.jpg | 69.92 Ko |
Also, when I edit and submit, it takes up to 15 seconds to complete -- I get email notification about topic update BEFORE the updated page is shown in browser. Not to mention that I sometimes get this:
Is it an error or success? Make up your mind.
Finally the choice of colors for text and background on the above screenshot is really retarded -- just look how the word "ERROR" got smeared due to JPEG compression and your choice of colors.
You should be ashamed for rolling out the ISN website and forum in its current sad state -- with so many rough edges and issues I'd call it ALPHA release, but only because I can't remember what comes BEFORE alpha version in software manufacturing.
>>What you see is not what you get here. Why? Will you finally fire those incompetent developers...
Igor,
You know that developers are almost like "Last-Guys-In-The-Universe-Of-Software-Companies" and it is very easy to blame these guys and make them responsible for all these problems. I see that something was really wrong and almost no testing was done for the New IDZ web-site. Unfortunately, participation of community members was zero during design and implementation phases of the New IDZ forum.
However, what about top- and middle-level managers, including:
- Renee James ( she is a Senior Vice President and announced about the New IDZ web-site on IDF 2012 / what does she know about all these problems? ), and
- Scott Apeland ( who is a Director Intel Developer Program Organization / what does he know about all these problems? ) and
- Dmitry Oganezov ( who is currently a manager of Server Developer Community and NOT responded to my e-mail regarding a different issue in 5 days )?
There are rules, policies, etc in all companies and as a Senior C++ Software Developer I follow and do what a manager says and as a technical person I try to help the manager to make right decisions when it comes to technology.
I regret to see that our time is taken out on helping Intel to solve all these terrible formatting, performance, UI, etc, problems. I've participated in lots of different software integrations, migrations, deployments, etc during last 15+ years and I haven't seen anything like that.
Best regards,
Sergey
Intel Black Belt Software Developer since September 12th, 2012 ( by some reason a "classified" by Intel because my profile's icon is not updated yet )
...>>>Sergey
Intel Black Belt Software Developer since September 12th, 2012 ( by some reason a "classified" by Intel because my profile's icon is not updated yet )...>>>
My congratulation to you Sergey for reaching a status of "Black Belt Developer".
>>...when I edit and submit, it takes up to 15 seconds to complete...
Finally! Igor is the second person who experienced and reported these strange performance problems. Take a look at a thread with my quick investigation and log-files:
Forum topic: A performance problem with the IDZ web-site
Web-link: http://software.intel.com/en-us/forums/topic/328990
Best regards,
Sergey
@Iliya
>>My congratulation to you Sergey for reaching a status of "Black Belt Developer".
Thank you, Iliya! That was a really pleasant and absolutely unexpected surprise...
Best regards,
Sergey
>>Unfortunately, participation of community members was zero during design and implementation phases of the New IDZ forum
I have to disaree -- we have been asked to comment on the new look of ISN pages and software.intel.com and I did. We have also been asked (and I have email to prove it) to participate in ordering menu items and categories and picking those that we think are important and I did. I was talking to developers of ISN at the IDF 2012 in person and told them about many issues I personally see with the new software.intel.com site.
It seems that all that feedback I provided was in vain and that they arrogantly keep pushing the solution which when I am in a generous mood I can call less than optimal, otherwise when I am in honest mood I can only describe it as atrocious, both feature and performance-wise.
There is more. Try accessing the site on an iPad and see what happens when you open the popup menu on the top -- hint: there is no way to close it unless you pick an item from it which is not always what you wanted. What if you open a menu by accident? Only way to close is to navigate away from the content you were looking at.
CSS media queries are not used, amount of content does not adapt to the size and orientation of the portable devices. I could continue, but I am seriously offended by the fact that I have to list all those issues instead of them being caught in an internal QA testing.
>>...I am seriously offended by the fact that I have to list all those issues instead of them being caught in an internal QA testing...
Intel's net income for the last 3rd quarter was $2.97B US ( or so ) and it looks like it was decided to save some money on testers and internal testing of the new IDZ web-site.
Also, let me bring up some positive things. I remember my impressions of the IDF 2012 registration web-site. I was very impressed and I would rate it as Perfect! You've used it, right? Did you have any problems or issues? I did not have any and it means that the IDF 2012 registration web-site was tested very good.
Igor,
You and Jim are the oldest and most reputable Intel Black Belt Software Developers. Why wouldn't you write an open letter that expresses all our concerns in a more generic form? You could ask all IDZ community members to support a point of view in that letter.
During last two months we're dealing with all these problems and they must be resolved as soon as possible. Why? Because I have some concerns that users of Intel software products are trying to stay away from IDZ web-site. In order to confirm it some analysis has to be done and, for example, these two questions could be asked:
"How many posts were submitted on 'Intel C++ compiler' forum in June, July, August and September?" and "Is there a negative trend?"
Best regards,
Sergey
>>...We have also been asked (and I have email to prove it) to participate in ordering menu items and categories and picking those that
>>we think are important...
I have not received it. Could you forward the e-mail to SergeyKostrovAThotmailDOTcom, please?
@Sergey
>>>Thank you, Iliya! That was a really pleasant and absolutely unexpected surprise>>>
Still have a long way to be Black Belt Developer:)
Hi Igor, Sergey, All,
I'm really sorry about the issues you're experiencing. I mean it. I'm sorry.
The only excuse (and I'm pretty sure that it is not a valide excuse) IDZ is a brand new website; thus some reasonable time required to stabilize the basic functionality and even more time required to improve user experience. Your experience. It's a philosophical statement, indeed, but I have some ideas how to turn it into a practical proposal.
What I would like to propose is:
1) We're technical people; please do not release negative emotions - as you probably know it rarely helps. Our developers are working really hard, let us help them!
2) We can use this forum (Watercooler) to report about IDZ issues, but let us behave as the experts. Please be precise, please report the problems in separate threads and PLEASE leave emotions aside..
I WILL subscribe to this forum and I WILL serve as a bridge between this forum discussions and our developers. I promise.
Hello Dmitry,
>> IDZ is a brand new website; thus some reasonable time required to stabilize the basic functionality
That is exactly what I believe is wrong -- you don't publish a website BEFORE you have basic functionality working!
I wouldn't roll out broken stuff on my insignificant personal website, let alone on something so big and heavily used like ISN/IDZ.
>>...and even more time required to improve user experience.
As I said we have been asked for feedback before new site was made. I also used the opportunity at IDF2012 to discuss things with developers but to me they didn't take my comments seriously and sounded dismissive / laughed it off when I said that they should try making the site work more like Apple's.
>>Your experience
That experience is standing in the way of helping others because we keep wasting time fighting with buggy forum software. If I have to edit my post several times to make it readable that is a time better spent answering another question.
>>please do not release negative emotions
I would like to avoid that, but unfortunately sometimes kicking someone's complacent backside is the only way to force the change for the better. I have learned to be patient up to a point but when I see that nice approach isn't working I switch to "blunt" mode.
Let me ask you something -- how do you expect me to stay calm when last time I checked I couldn't edit my own profile on the forum?
>>Our developers are working really hard...
I am sorry, but that is REALLY hard to believe.
First sign of working hard is not messing things up to begin with.
Second sign of working hard is getting results fast.
Third sign of working hard is getting praise from strangers.
I don't see any of those signs. How about you?
>>Please be precise, please report the problems
I already reported a bunch of them, some in person, some via email -- I only posted here after I saw no progress on fixing th
>>leave emotions aside.
In my opinion, emotions are a strong driving force, and they function much like a Jin Jang.
If you work without emotions on something people interact with every day, it will show in the (lack of) quality of your work, and it will make those people unhappy. Making them unhappy will produce emotions which will inevitably fire back at you. Your best defense aren't pleads to refrain from emotions, but having emotions and passion yourself which you will share with others through your work.
Igor, I must admit that I agree with your position. The key idea of this community, as well as any other community, is to let people help each other. The forum issues are defenitely an obstacle here.
But let's try to look from another point of view: you could help our IDZ developers, they are just a hidden but impotrant part of the community. And since I'm not a hidden part I'll take all your emotions very personally. To be more precise, here is what I did and what I will do:
1) I reviewed all the problems reported here and all the problems reported to me personally (read: i knowabout these problems)
2) I ensured that our developers know about these problems (read: they are all in our bug tracker)
3) I will supervise all these problems and update the status on a weekly base (read: you will know what's going on and get an update each Monday)
Please let me know what else I can do.
Dmitry,
You can also check:
1. Why we receive two emails for each subscribed thread?
Example:
Subject: New activity on your Forum topic
Subject: Comment for Forum topic: Pretty please with cherry on top fix the bloody formatting
Is it really necessary to have two notifications for each comment posted?
2. Both emails I received contain your last comment, but in "Comment for Forum topic" HTML tags are not properly stripped?
3. Why is there notification for every post edit?
I can't remember if they can be individually configured or not, will have to look into it but the default is annoying -- I received no less than 12 emails in the time span from your first reply until now.
4. When I will be able to edit my bio and signature?
5. When will IDZ sense orientation change on portable devices such as tablets and adjust layout and amount of content accordingly?
6. When will the landing page software.intel.com be remade to show more usefull content and less splashy ads?
7. When will IDZ navigation become more touch friendly?
8. When will IDZ take advantage of widescreen monitors?
I could go on like this but I really need some sleep now.
All the good questions! Let me take care about the answers and take some rest please;)
--DO
Hi everybody,
I'm very satisfied with Dmitry's response and I really understand Igor's point of view. So, let Intel's managers and developers to complete the job!
Best regards,
Sergey
I see that the last post here was back in October. Even my not-so-technical eye can see that there are still serious issues with the website. One example from today - I hit the New Topic button, but the page loading hangs for a long time until I finally cancel the loading and hit the New Topic button again, then it loads in about 1 minute - pretty crazy. And it's not the only example - I've had pages hang and take too long to load, website kick me out and have me re-log in so many times, it would take too much time and space to list. I really hope that someone at Intel IS working on this website and trying to iron out all these issues.
Hi everybody,
>>...I see that the last post here was back in October. Even my not-so-technical eye can see that there are still serious issues with
>>the website...
Anna is right and I'd like to confirm that something was really strange / wrong with 'Edit' and 'New Topic' functionalities during last a couple of days. Today, one of my post in TBB forum was lost but I managed to recover it. Please take into account our notes.
Best regards,
Sergey
>>... I'd like to confirm that something was really strange / wrong with 'Edit'...
That problem continues and sometimes 'Edit' link has to be clicked 3 or even 5 times (!).
I don't think anyone cares, Sergey. It seems that web developers are content with how it is now and see no need to fix anything. They are treating us like people who are tech-savvy enough to work around any problem instead of treating us like they would have to treat users of any other software.
If I refused to fix issues users report for an application which I am maintaining at work because there is a work-around or I deem it not important, I would have lost my job long time ago.
>>... It seems that web developers are content with how it is now and see no need to fix anything...
I could only confirm that many issues are not fixed. I bet for 99% that these issues won't be fixed ever.
Dmitry, what can you tell us about the progress? There are no visible changes with the IDZ website.
Could you provide a report what issues are fixed, not fixed, won't be fixed, etc?
Best regards,
Sergey
At least Lauren of Intel (in the Software Business Forum) is willing to listen to all my complaints. )) She is off right now, but I'll be talking to her when she returns, and maybe they will change their view, since users of the SBF part of this site aren't necessarily that tech savvy and really need the site to work right for decent user experience. We'll see.
>>...At least Lauren of Intel (in the Software Business Forum) is willing to listen to all my complaints...
Anna,
I don't believe that Lauren of Intel will be able to change anything and I'm skeptical here. Have you ever worked in a big US or Canadian corporation? It is a very different world compared to middle or small size companies.
You know that Intel is a very big corporation and we will never know what is going on inside some Intel units, departments, etc. Intel IDZ managers listen us for more than 3 months because we're complaining for more than 3 months. But, nothing happens and that's the problem!
I can't imaging that the problem with '#include' statement is still not fixed after many complaints from many users.
>>...I can't imaging that the problem with '#include' statement is still not fixed after many complaints from many users.
#include
Note: After #include statement there has to be a character left-arrow then a text "If You See My Note Here it is Finally fixed" followed by a character right-arrow.
Not Fixed!
