P7350 support VT?

P7350 support VT?

Hi, All

I recently ordered a notebook with P7350. I searched Intel website which said P7350 support Virtualization technology, http://processorfinder.intel.com/details.aspx?sSpec=SLB53. But I cannot find vmx flag in /proc/cpuinfo. Does P7350 support VT? How can I enable it?

Yours

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David Ott (Intel)'s picture

By default, systems are shipped with VT-x capabilities disabled.Look in your system BIOS for a way toenable. Details vary byvender.

You can look at MSR (0x3A) to verify. If it has 0x5 in the lower 3 bits, then VT-x is enabled.

-d

my issue is that I cannot see vmx flag in /proc/cpuinfo. after reading IA-32/32e manual, I am quite confused with the relation between IA32_FEATURE_CONTROL MSR and CPUID. Is it possible to control what value CPUID will return by controlling IA32_FEATURE_CONTROL?

The value read from IA32_FEATURE_CONTROL MSR is all 0s. I also tried to write 0x05 to it and it failed but it is ok to write value 0x01 to it.

BTW, is it possible to enable VMX in regular OS instead of BIOS?

Yours

David Ott (Intel)'s picture

Is there a BIOS option to enable VT?

Also, what tool are you using to examine / change the MSR?

I cannot find any BIOS option to enable VT. I installed Linux on my laptop and examined MSR using the tool from http://www.etallen.com/msr.html.

The following is the output

root@laptop:~/msr-20060206# ./msr 0x3a
CPU 0:
0x0000003a = 0x0000000000000000
CPU 1:
0x0000003a = 0x0000000000000000

when I try to set 0x3a to 0x5, it always failed
root@laptop:~/msr-20060206# ./msr 0x3a=5
msr: ineffective write to MSR 0x3a
0x0000003a = 0x0000000000000000
msr: ineffective write to MSR 0x3a
0x0000003a = 0x0000000000000000

David Ott (Intel)'s picture

MSR 0x3A should be accessible/modifiable by software if and only if the processor has a VT (VMX) fuse that is enabled.

Have you checked with yourOEM about whether they intended to offer the capability?

what you mean by "intended to offer the capability"? Do you mean that BIOS is able to disable this feature and hide this feature from CPUID? If so, does that mean I have to work with laptop vendor to solve this issue?

David Ott (Intel)'s picture

A vender can choose to hide the feature by not offering a way to enable in the BIOS. It it also possible for a vender to use a version of an Intel product that has a feature physically disabled. They would do either of these thingsif they are not yetready to support the feature in their product line. Hence, my question -- did yourlaptop vendor intend to offer the capability?

Have you checked whether there exists a BIOS update from your vender? Perhaps one now exists that supports enabling this feature.

I don't know whether they intend or not and haven't heard any updates on BIOS yet. anyway, thanks for your information.

I did buy Asus laptop M51vr with P7350.

I have same problem here, when loading kvm-intel module I am geting a message "operation not supported"

I did check my BIOS and I did find there "VT-d" which was enable.

I did try to change to disable, boot and load module > same message so I did enable VT-d in BIOS boot and load module and same message.

this functionality of procesor was one of the main requiments for my new laptop.

hope that it is only software problem ...

David Ott (Intel)'s picture

Note that many systems need to be cold booted after changing the VT-d BIOS setting for it to take effect. That is, change the setting in the BIOS, save, and then power the system down and unplug it for a minute or two. Then put theplug back in and bring it up.

well, I did try that, no help

looks that VT-d is something different then VT-x

I am very disapointed that this is not documented well on intel pages

David Ott (Intel)'s picture

Please don't be discouraged yet.
Can you tell me more specifics on what OS/VMM you are working with here?

Yes, there certainly is a difference between VT-x and VT-d. Please use the Intel web site to read technical information about it. For example, VT-d is explained in some detail here:

http://software.intel.com/en-us/articles/best-practices-for-paravirtualization-enhancements-from-intel-virtualization-technology-ept-and-vt-d

Intel's virtualization technology site is here:

http://www.intel.com/technology/virtualization/index.htm

Note that not all VMMs support VT-d yet. Furthermore, you need to configure the direct assignment in VT-d before it can really be exploited.

I am really disappointed with Intel's document too. Please check the following page
http://processorfinder.intel.com/Details.aspx?sSpec=SLB53
, which state P7350 support Intel Virtualization Technology, and the following page gives an overview of this tech
http://download.intel.com/technology/virtualization/320426.pdf.

Apparently, at current stage, VT-x is appliciable to processor only and VT-d to chipset only. If Intel page stated P7350 supports VT, customer will interprete it as VT-x. But, why the processor we ordered cannot get VT-x support? It's really misleading.

Sign!

Quoting - David Ott (Intel)

Please don't be discouraged yet.
Can you tell me more specifics on what OS/VMM you are working with here?

Yes, there certainly is a difference between VT-x and VT-d. Please use the Intel web site to read technical information about it. For example, VT-d is explained in some detail here:

http://software.intel.com/en-us/articles/best-practices-for-paravirtualization-enhancements-from-intel-virtualization-technology-ept-and-vt-d

Intel's virtualization technology site is here:

http://www.intel.com/technology/virtualization/index.htm

Note that not all VMMs support VT-d yet. Furthermore, you need to configure the direct assignment in VT-d before it can really be exploited.

David Ott (Intel)'s picture

I understand your point.

Guess the world is a little more complicated than it may first appear. Intel does not sell its products to consumers directly, it sells them to OEMs who offer products that include Intel processors and chipsets. To support some features, an OEM needs to create a BIOS that handles many technical details correctly before handing off to the OS. An OEM must decide whether or not it isready to support a particular feature from the larger set of features that come with the Intel processor they are offering. It is also possible that an OEM has ordered a feature to be physically disabled since it has no intention ofsupporting itin their offering. Thus, the list of capabilities you see on Intel's information pages may not match an OEM product offering exactly.

Can you tell me the OEM and model number of the system you are having issues with? Perhaps we can do some checking for you.

Quoting - darkbuck
my issue is that I cannot see vmx flag in /proc/cpuinfo. after reading IA-32/32e manual, I am quite confused with the relation between IA32_FEATURE_CONTROL MSR and CPUID. Is it possible to control what value CPUID will return by controlling IA32_FEATURE_CONTROL?

The value read from IA32_FEATURE_CONTROL MSR is all 0s. I also tried to write 0x05 to it and it failed but it is ok to write value 0x01 to it.

BTW, is it possible to enable VMX in regular OS instead of BIOS?

Yours

darkbuck, if you cannot see the vmx flag in /proc/cpuinfo then it would indicate your CPU does not support VT even though this is contrary to intel specification for the P7350. The value in cpuid.eax=1 of ecx bit 5 (VMX feature) cannot be changed.

My question is are any of the P7350s fused for VMX or not?

my laptop is model HP660 from HASEE (http://www.hasee.com). The product detail is at http://www.hasee.com/cn/Product_Index.html?product_index=1&productid=1291&prodid=13&iszx=null (in chinese.) Their BIOS is probably from insyde (http://www.insydesw.com) and the version number is Q3B53.

BTW, if VT feature is phyiscally disabled, is there any way to enable it again? Is it possible to order a full featured P7350 somewhere?

Quoting - David Ott (Intel)

I understand your point.

Guess the world is a little more complicated than it may first appear. Intel does not sell its products to consumers directly, it sells them to OEMs who offer products that include Intel processors and chipsets. To support some features, an OEM needs to create a BIOS that handles many technical details correctly before handing off to the OS. An OEM must decide whether or not it isready to support a particular feature from the larger set of features that come with the Intel processor they are offering. It is also possible that an OEM has ordered a feature to be physically disabled since it has no intention ofsupporting itin their offering. Thus, the list of capabilities you see on Intel's information pages may not match an OEM product offering exactly.

Can you tell me the OEM and model number of the system you are having issues with? Perhaps we can do some checking for you.

David Ott (Intel)'s picture

I am looking into your model number, thanks for your patience.

No, it is not possible to "re-enable" a feature that has been physically fused. (But remember, we are not certain this is the case yet.)

David Ott (Intel)'s picture

An engineer sent me a nice synopsis of info yesterday. I've pasted it below.

1.1.1

Discovering Support for Intel

VT (VMX)

The CPUID instruction can be used to determine whether a processor supports Intel VT. The CPUID instruction returns processor identification and feature information in the EAX, EBX, ECX, and EDX registers. If CPUID.1:ECX.VMX[bit 5] = 1, then VMX operation is supported.

Below are the assembly instructions to read check Intel VT-x capability of CPU:

MOV EAX, 01H

CPUID

Check ECX.[bit 5] -> A value of 1 indicates that the processor supports Intel VT-x

1.1.2

Checking Intel VT Enabled CPU

Bit 13 of CR4 register can be read to determine if CPU is enabled for Intel VT. A value of 1 for CR4.VMXE[bit13] means CPU is enabled for VMX operations.

Check CR4.VMXE[bit 13] = 1 -> Enables VMX operation when set.

MSR 3A can also be used to check if CPU is VT enabled.

For more information on CPUID, see Chapter 3, "Instruction Set Reference, A-M," in the Intel 64 and IA-32 Software Developer Manual, Volume 2A

Refer to Intel 64 and IA-32 Architectures Software Developers Manual, Volume 3B, section 19 and appendix G for more info on VMX capability reporting.

David, your information is all good however I believe it has already been explained that the cpuid flag indicates that the P7350 of the OP does not support VT. I have come across several posts of users of the P7350 CPU who also do not have VMX indicated by the cpuid flag. IMHO I think it would be better if you would ask an Intel hardware engineer rather than a software engineer if the P7350 is supposed to support VMX or not.

David Ott (Intel)'s picture

FYI - Still working with some staff members to look into your model number. Thanks for your patience.

David Ott (Intel)'s picture

From the info you gave (laptopmodel HP660 from Hasee) we've been able confirm that the VT is not supported by the OEM.

As explained above, the P7350 CPU supports VT (stated on the Intel product pages). Hasse does not, however, configure the feature through BIOS support. We've contacted Hasee, and they currently have no plans to enable it. Specific feature support is an OEM decison. Intel makes recommendations, but the final decision belongs to them.

David Ott, maybe your getting confused with MSR 3Ah as the CPUID VMX flag is not affected by the BIOS.

The point is although the Intel documentation states the Intel P7350 supports VMX (VT) it has been shown that at least some P7350s do not support VMX, perhaps all P7350s do not support VMX. Even if Hasse wanted to enable P7350 VT through the BIOS they probably could not since the CPU in question does NOT appear to support it. What if the OP wishes to use an Open BIOS or even perhaps write his own which would include VT? He has bought this computer expecting the CPU to have VT support and it seems it doesn't.

Here is a link showing Intel's own Processor Identification Utility reporting that a P7350 does not support VT. Please take a look for yourself.

http://www.tempusfugit.ca/cpuid.html

Sorry, it has been such a long time (3 months) since this thread was started that I forgot the OP had said MSR 3Ah value was 0. This would mean the lock bit has not been set and the OP would be free to use VMX if it were supported by the P7350.

I am trying to find some more info

so:

1) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VT-d

2) looks that linux krenl will add this in new version 2.6.28

http://lwn.net/Articles/309159/

http://www.linuxhq.com/kernel/v2.6/28-rc8/virt/kvm/vtd.c

Hi,

I have a similar problem as you. I've Asus B50A with P7350. In the specification is VT support, and also BIOS have VT-d options (Enable) but no virtualization. I just installed new linux kernel 2.6.28rc8 with virtualization support (kvm) and "kvm: no hardware support" also can't find vmx flag (proc/cpuinfo) ;(

P7350 OEM - massacre, Core 2 Duo without VT

Hi, David Ott. Ireally appreciate your effort contacting OEM vendor. But, it's really shame that Intel didn'tnotifythe end customers that OEMmay cut CPU features on Intel webpage. With such a simplereminder, I won't ordered this laptop withoutfully inspection. I really cannot understand why OEM cut features without Intel connivance and why Intel doesn't take any step to clear the confusion.
BTW, for technical side, is there anyway to re-enable VMX feature since, just as you mentioned, P7350 is still having VMX support according to Intel.

Quoting - David Ott (Intel)

From the info you gave (laptopmodel HP660 from Hasee) we've been able confirm that the VT is not supported by the OEM.

As explained above, the P7350 CPU supports VT (stated on the Intel product pages). Hasse does not, however, configure the feature through BIOS support. We've contacted Hasee, and they currently have no plans to enable it. Specific feature support is an OEM decison. Intel makes recommendations, but the final decision belongs to them.

David Ott (Intel)'s picture

Thanks for your patience. I continue to follow-up internally on your issue, and to represent your position in the dicussions.

I recently bought a samsung p460aa01it and have the same issue. I see there is a bios upgrade available on their site but they don't have a changelog. David can you get in touch with samsung engineers to help me with this issue?

thank you in advance

Quoting - rm__

I recently bought a samsung p460aa01it and have the same issue. I see there is a bios upgrade available on their site but they don't have a changelog.

Bios update do not help.

I have the same problem with my HP dv5-1020el. HP recently enabled its bioses (H2OInsyde) to the Intel VT, but in this model there's no possibility to enable the Virtualization flag.
Any news about the P7350?

Quoting - David Ott (Intel)

the P7350 CPU supports VT (stated on the Intel product pages).

After contacting Intel I can now confirm that the P7350 does not support Intel Virtualization Technology. It's probably not what most of you want to hear but hopefully clears up any confusion. At the time of writing this post some Intel product page(s) may show the incorrect VT information until updated, such ashttp://processorfinder.intel.com/details.aspx?sSpec=SLB53.

In the mean time please use the following link for the correct Intel Core2 Duo Processor P7350 VT information.
http://ark.intel.com/cpu.aspx?groupID=36750&code=p7350

Quoting - terabytes

After contacting Intel I can now confirm that the P7350 does not support Intel Virtualization Technology. It's probably not what most of you want to hear but hopefully clears up any confusion. At the time of writing this post some Intel product page(s) may show the incorrect VT information until updated, such ashttp://processorfinder.intel.com/details.aspx?sSpec=SLB53.

In the mean time please use the following link for the correct Intel Core2 Duo Processor P7350 VT information.
http://ark.intel.com/cpu.aspx?groupID=36750&code=p7350

So...up until today I believed my Toshiba laptop could do VT if only the BIOS had an option to enable it. I believe this because Intel's website said so, and I bought the laptop specifically because it met this requirement. Toshiba has always maintained that the BIOS is not the problem, and hey they were right!

Now I know otherwise, does anyone know what recourse any of us have with Intel? I need to upgrade to a new chip obviously, would Intel give me a trade-in deal!?!? Who would I contact? Hey sell me a P8400 for $100 and we'll call it even.

Quoting - ryan6491

Quoting - terabytes

After contacting Intel I can now confirm that the P7350 does not support Intel Virtualization Technology. It's probably not what most of you want to hear but hopefully clears up any confusion. At the time of writing this post some Intel product page(s) may show the incorrect VT information until updated, such ashttp://processorfinder.intel.com/details.aspx?sSpec=SLB53.

In the mean time please use the following link for the correct Intel Core2 Duo Processor P7350 VT information.
http://ark.intel.com/cpu.aspx?groupID=36750&code=p7350

So...up until today I believed my Toshiba laptop could do VT if only the BIOS had an option to enable it. I believe this because Intel's website said so, and I bought the laptop specifically because it met this requirement. Toshiba has always maintained that the BIOS is not the problem, and hey they were right!

Now I know otherwise, does anyone know what recourse any of us have with Intel? I need to upgrade to a new chip obviously, would Intel give me a trade-in deal!?!? Who would I contact? Hey sell me a P8400 for $100 and we'll call it even.

Quote!

Does Intel provide us option to upgrade P7350 to processors with VT support? I really need VT for my laptop. I ordered that laptop just because Intel provides incorrect information on their website. Sigh...

Quoting - terabytes

After contacting Intel I can now confirm that the P7350 does not support Intel Virtualization Technology. It's probably not what most of you want to hear but hopefully clears up any confusion. At the time of writing this post some Intel product page(s) may show the incorrect VT information until updated, such ashttp://processorfinder.intel.com/details.aspx?sSpec=SLB53.

In the mean time please use the following link for the correct Intel Core2 Duo Processor P7350 VT information.
http://ark.intel.com/cpu.aspx?groupID=36750&code=p7350

Hey we should get together on a class action lawsuit... We'll settle in 2017 after all the appeals are completed, and our settlement after attorney fees?

------------>>> $25 coupon for an Intel t-shirt that reads: Sorry about the misprint!

Mr. Otellini, I demand satisfaction. While I would agree that misprints happen, we are among the set of users that is unfortunate enough to have been left out of one of the most exciting architecture advancements in the past few years, virtualization technology. We put down our good money, and now we're a handful of bright-minded, aspiring virtualization users that can't participate in this marvel.

Ok, I have writer's block now. Maybe someone at Slashdot will pick this up where I left off.

Though Intel has change their website, I still have the screenshot at that time when Intel claimed P7350 is VT capable. It seems it's really an Intel fault.

Quoting - terabytes

After contacting Intel I can now confirm that the P7350 does not support Intel Virtualization Technology. It's probably not what most of you want to hear but hopefully clears up any confusion. At the time of writing this post some Intel product page(s) may show the incorrect VT information until updated, such ashttp://processorfinder.intel.com/details.aspx?sSpec=SLB53.

In the mean time please use the following link for the correct Intel Core2 Duo Processor P7350 VT information.
http://ark.intel.com/cpu.aspx?groupID=36750&code=p7350

Quoting - darkbuck

Where can we get a look at the old screeshot. I just bought a new laptop for VMware and am upset this is not enabled. Thanks

Quoting - faber.cpu
Maybe there is any way to enable VT,

http://ivoidwarranties.blogspot.com/2009/04/core-2-duo-p7350-vs-intel-vt...

???

Wishful thinking...I've alerady confirmed beyond all doubt that my P7350 has no VT enabled. The MacBook guy got really lucky, or it's a different chip, or something.

So, I'm contemplating the purchase of a P8400, P8600, or P9500 as a replacement. Cost is $218-360 new.

If I knew about this problem ahead of time, I just would have picked out a different laptop with a different chip. What a hassle.

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