[CRITICAL] memory data corruption with GM965 on Dell machines

[CRITICAL] memory data corruption with GM965 on Dell machines

current workaround (if no bugfix BIOS available):

use intel display driver 7.14.10.1272 (v15.2.6) dated 05/11/2007 or older

bugfix BIOS (yet only released for the following systems):

Dell Inspiron 1420 : Update BIOS to >= A09 (BIOS A09 here)
Dell Inspiron 1520 : Update BIOS to >= A09 (BIOS A09 here)
Dell Inspiron 1525 : Update BIOS to >= A09. Verify VBIOS >= 1566
Dell Inspiron 1720 : Update BIOS to >= A09 (BIOS A09 here)
Dell Latitude D530 : Update BIOS to >= A07 (BIOS A07 here)
Dell Latitude D630 : Update BIOS to >= A12 (BIOS A12 here)
Dell Latitude D830 : Update BIOS to >= A13 (BIOS A13 here)
Dell XPS M1330 : Update BIOS to >= A12 (BIOS A12 here)
Dell Vostro 1400 : Update BIOS to >= A09 (BIOS A09 here)
Dell OptiPlex 330 : Update BIOS to >= A05 (BIOS A05 here)

still waiting for fixes for at least these notebooks:

Dell Vostro 1500

I don't know whether these notebooks are affected as well, nor whether a BIOS update is being prepared:

Dell Vostro 1510, 1710, 1700
Dell Latitude ATG

List of notebooks NOT affected:

Dell Vostro 1310

Bottom Line:

I have sufficient reason to belive in some memory corruption bug with the X3100 drivers v15.8 + v15.7.3. I do not think it affects your hardware, but I have the problem. There is also the chance that my GM965 chip is faulty. In addition there is the chance that my bug is not related to the gfx drivers, but just emerges with those two particular gfx drivers and is caused by some other faulty driver or device.

I filed a bug report at intel, with the outcome that they haven't reproduced anything like that. Since I found people with bugs that sound very similar (see below), I want to raise awareness in this forum and help other people google it (if they encounter the same problem). I will updates this posting if I get more information or by some magic it's not the drivers fault.

My walkaround is to use the slightly outdated 7.14.10.1253 of the GM965 gfx drivers. It does not show up in this version.

Selected Details:

I've got a fancy Dell M1330 notebook with intel X3100 graphics integrated into the GM965 chipset. Dell ships this Core2Duo notebook with 7.14.10.1253 of the graphics driver version runnning Vista Business 32Bit @2GB memory. It runs perfectly except that sometimes it doesn't recognize HDMI attached video beamers and big monitors.

Thus I tried:
7.14.10.1437 (v15.8)
7.14.10.1409 (v15.7.3)

Both fix the external HDMI attached device bugs.

However I encounter a severe bug: Memory corruption!
Unfortunately it occurs very infrequent and my test setup to detect memory curruption in this case requires reading big files from harddrive in a loop and checking their md5sum. In general I have to read ~50 - 1000 GB of Data u ntil I encounter a single md5sum error.

The whole course of isolating this bug and accounting the gfx system is not that interesting here. Let me just mention that I threw all the memory tests (incl. the brand new GM965 supporting MemTest86+ V2.01), changed memory modules, CPU stre testing at every single P-State, Harddrive checking (incl. different drivers such as IASTOR.SYS 7.8.0.1012, 7.0.0.1020, MSAHCI.SYS 6.0.6000.20765). I do not encounter these bugs running ubuntu 7.10 or Mac OS X 10.5.1 on the same hardware reading the same files. It took me every evening the last week and some nights to do a thorough test. The bug seems not to be file/harddrive related - just my testing setup is built this way, since it gives me an easy way to validate some of the main memory content.

I am extremely careful if it comes to making hardware or software responsible for a given bug and try to think of every possible inference.

Certainly while switching back and forth with the drivers above I did not change anything else, after having isolated the bug. At that point I tried to find evidence that I'm not the only person. And I found:

Posting #161 (X3100 on MacBook):
"Our assessment of the error is that a bug in the graphics driver code is causing memory corruption within the data used by WoW under some circumstances, leading to a crash."
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=3686740801&sid=1&pageNo=9

This is written by a WoW/Blizzard employee. Well, but it's 3D and it's Mac OS X!

There is code sharing amoung different intel drivers (Linux, Windows, Mac OS X). But the same crash also occured using WINDOWS by means of Boot Camp on the same hardware! posting #182:
"heres my windows crash report on the same macbook"
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=3686740801&sid=1&pageNo=10

Regarding 3D: I'm using Aero, but the errors occurs with Aero being enabled and disabled.

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Bump!

Drivers known to have this bug:
7.15.10.1472 (v15.9) dated 04/25/2008
7.14.10.1461 (v15.8.2) dated 04/01/2008
7.15.10.1451 (v15.9 beta) dated 03/20/2008
7.14.10.1437 (v15.8) dated 02/22/2008
7.14.10.1409 (v15.7.3) dated 01/11/2008
7.14.10.1364 (v15.7) dated 11/12/2007
7.14.10.1322 (v15.6) dated 08/31/2007
7.14.10.1295 (v15.4.4) dated 06/29/2007
7.14.10.1283 (v15.4.3) dated 06/06/2007
7.14.10.1277 (v15.4.2) dated 05/24/2007

Drivers considered bugfree:
7.14.10.1272 (v15.2.6) dated 05/11/2007 Dell Download #1, #2
7.14.10.1268 (v15.4.1) dated 05/03/2007
7.14.10.1255 (v15.4) dated 04/18/2007
7.14.10.1253 (v15.2.4) dated 04/20/2007 Dell Download #1, #2

=> timewindow bug introduced [05/03/2007] - [05/24/2007].

Quickest way to detect suffering from memory corruption http://hcidesign.com/memtest Within seconds or very few minutes you should see whether you suffer from memory corruption.

Changelog of driver revisions:
http://downloadmirror.intel.com/12091/ENG/GFX_Vista32_15.6.0.1322_PV_Intel_relnotes_gfx.htm

--

Found >16 more Users having same memory corruption issue.

Dell Latitude D630
jodeboeck: http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=225271
sarcago (several) http://www.dellcommunity.com/supportforums/board/message?board.id=insp_general&view=by_date_ascending&message.id=271900#M271900
supermario9999 (2 notebooks) http://www.dellcommunity.com/supportforums/board/message?board.id=insp_general&view=by_date_ascending&message.id=278406#M278406

Dell Latitude D830
colleague of jodeboeck: http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=225271
jenzd http://www.dellcommunity.com/supportforums/board/message?board.id=insp_general&thread.id=269494
MikeAP http://www.dellcommunit
y.com/supportforums/board/message?board.id=insp_general&view=by_date_ascending&message.id=274681#M274681

sneakymouse
http://www.dellcommunity.com/supportforums/board/message?board.id=insp_general&view=by_date_ascending&message.id=279734#M279734

Dell XPS M1330
7oby (myself)
Mannerwafferl http://www.xps-forum.de/thread.php?postid=75072#post75072
ghopf http://www.dellcommunity.com/supportforums/board/message?board.id=insp_general&view=by_date_ascending&message.id=278861#M278861
haidu (below)
AnybodyM (below)

Dell Vostro 1400
kubrick http://www.dellcommunity.com/supportforums/board/message?board.id=insp_video&message.id=172813
ghopf
http://www.dellcommunity.com/supportforums/board/message?board.id=insp_general&view=by_date_ascending&message.id=278870#M278870
AnybodyM (below)

Potentially more users affected:
Dell M1520 running Windows XP:
http://www.notebookforums.com/thread210181.html
Dell Vostro 1500 running Windows Vista x64:
auster: http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?p=3236359#post3236359

Hi!

Just to report some more people suffering from this problem (with Dell Latitude D630 and D830):
http://www.dellcommunity.com/supportforums/board/message?board.id=insp_general&message.id=269494

This is really annoying.

Best regards, Jens

Hello here!

I have similar problems on my Acer Extensa 5620z under Windows XP Proffesional.

When playing World of Warcraft or Warcraft III on driver releases 14.33 or 14.33.1 sometimes BSOD appears, which reported about memory corruption.

On previous driver releases (14.32.3, 14.31.1, 14.29.1) I didn't encounter such problems. But enabling fog in NfS Pro Street v. 1.0 causes BSOD on _every_ driver release.

I believe i'm suffering from the same problem 7oby found.

My System: Dell M1330, Vista Home Premium, 2GB Ram.

Originally detected the problems when downloading and unpacking large RARed Installation files, which were corrupt for no good reason. I can reproduce the problem using Prime95's Torture Test - Mode 3 (Blend), which usually either fails in the first few minutes or will then run continously without problems for hours and days until I abort. It does not fail in Prime95 if I only test a few hundred MB of ram, instead of 1500 (which i usually choose), which makes me wonder if the initial swapping is somehow involved as it fails only in the very beginning, when RAM is still beeing freed for prime95 and taken away from Windows OS tasks.

The DELL Self Test detects no memory problems. Memtest86+ (from uBuntu Boot CD) detects no memory problems. Prime95 in Linux (Ubuntu 8.04) detects no memory problems.

Something is VERY strange here. Intel Drivers 7.14.10.1437 are installed (came automagically from Windows Update i think).

My current theories are:
- defect Ram, even though no standalone memtest can detect it (i'll get new ram tomorrow and try swapping that)
- defect HDD (perhaps HDD's 8MB cache defect?), which corrupts data especially while swapping
- weird driver problem.

This post here along with the link to the german site really make it looks like it's a weird intel driver thing. I will investigate this further this weekend to confirm 7oby's theory of the Intel GFX drivers being the cause.

I am sure I have the same problem. I have an M1330 3GB RAM X3100 VISTA 32. Unfortunately, I spend two weeks to pin down the problem. I swapped several sticks of memory, several hard disks and tried several storage drivers, but only with 7.14.10.1253 GM965 driver I get stability in Orthos blend. I get exactly the same simptoms, it can run for hours if it passes the first 3 minutes meanwhile the swapping is heavy. I think the problem is related to hard disk because everything started with hard disk data corruption and vista reinstall after automatic windows update of graphic drivers. I think that Dell realized that something is fishy because they withdrawed all the more recent graphic drivers from their support site. Probably the bug is wide spread, but is hard to pin down.

AnybodyM:
My current theories are:
- defect Ram, even though no standalone memtest can detect it (i'll get new ram tomorrow and try swapping that)
- defect HDD (perhaps HDD's 8MB cache defect?), which corrupts data especially while swapping
- weird driver problem.

I will investigate this further this weekend to confirm 7oby's theory of the Intel GFX drivers being the cause.

I have carried on my investigations this weekend, and i've come to the following conclusions:
- It's definitely NOT the Ram. I've swapped the Ram from 2x1GB Samsung to 2x2GB OCZ and the problem does still exist
- It's present in both Vista32 and Vista64
- It's not affected by the operational mode of the Intel SATA Controller (Compatibility Mode vs. Native AHCI)

Even though i've not yet changed the harddrive (theory "defect HDD"), i'm 99,95% confident that it's the Intel GM965 graphics driver which is corrupting my data and causing all this trouble. Why? I'm now using the REALLY OLD 7.14.10.1253 which is the latest one available at DELL, and even though I've tried hard I was totally unable to reproduce the bug with those (old) drivers installed.

==> Intel, please fix this ASAP (and perhaps withdraw affected drivers in the meantime) ! Data corruption is no trivial matter!

AnybodyM:Even though i've not yet changed the harddrive (theory "defect HDD"), i'm 99,95% confident that it's the Intel GM965 graphics driver which is corrupting my data and causing all this trouble.

Disabling pagefile in Windows should rule out faulty HDD. Memtest won't swap then.

I haven't disabled pagefile yet, since I rouled out fault HDD earlier already. Errors also occur reading data from DVD-Rom (which is a different controller and driver).

AnybodyM:I'm now using the REALLY OLD 7.14.10.1253 which is the latest one available at DELL, and even though I've tried hard I was totally unable to reproduce the bug with those (old) drivers installed.

Just to be precise: Even if the corruption does not occur with these old drivers ever, this just means it doesn't trigger the bug. For example you cannot conclude directly that the HDD or DVD-Rom driver is fine. If one component is faulty there are also always at least two ways to fix it: a) fix faulty component b) workaround in all other components talking to the faulty component to make sure bug is not trigged. Both types of fixes a) and b) are applied frequently and common.

haidu:I think that Dell realized that something is fishy because they
withdrawed all the more recent graphic drivers from their support site.

I can not confirm this one. Here's v.7.14.10.1409 for Lattitude D630, which is also affected:
http://support.euro.dell.com/support/downloads/download.aspx?c=de&cs=dedhs1&l=de&s=dhs&releaseid=R179345&SystemID=LATITUDE%20D630&servicetag=&os=WLH&osl=GE&deviceid=12618&devlib=0&typecnt=0&vercnt=3&catid=-1&impid=-1&formatcnt=1&libid=6&fileid=244176

7oby:
Disabling pagefile in Windows should rule out faulty HDD. Memtest won't swap then.

I don't know how Vista handles operation without a page file, but in Win2K and WinXP this was absolutely NOT recommendable, the OS totally freaks out without page file :-)

7oby:
I haven't disabled pagefile yet, since I rouled out fault HDD earlier
already. Errors also occur reading data from DVD-Rom (which is a
different controller and driver).

So many faulty HDDs aren't that likely. But it could have been an incompatibility - perhaps Dell is always using similar drives. Both Dells in which i've so far been able to reproduce this bug (XPS M1330 + Vostro 1400) had a "WD1200BEVS-75UST0" Drive, so... just to be sure, i today acquired a Seagate Momentus 5400.2 SATA drive to replace it with something completely different.

Did my 12th reinstall of Vista, this time absolutely barebone, no SP1, only Ethernet Driver, nothing else.
Prime95 worked perfectly fine. Installed the very latest v15.9 drivers from Intel, rebooted, started Prime and who-would-have-guessed-it: Once again a Hardware fault detected shortly after starting Prime95-Blend-1500MB.

So if it's an incompatibility, it's now beyond any hardware I can change for myself.

I've now installed the latest bugfree driver (7.14.10.1272 (v15.2.6) dated 05/11/2007) according to your list on both of those Dell Laptops (M1330+Vostro 1400) and the problem is gone on both. Not really a solution though, because I too will need the HDMI port soon and am dependent on good HDMI behavior.

By the way: Do we have ANY specific report of someone who can reproduce
exactly THIS (and not some hard to pinpoint World of Warcraft problem)
on a machine that is NOT a Dell ? This seems to be pretty Dell specific
from the posts i've read so far ?

AnybodyM:I don't know how Vista handles operation without a page file, but in Win2K and WinXP this was absolutely NOT recommendable, the OS totally freaks out without page file :-)

As I said earlier: Disabling the pagefile is to rule out any swapping (and in general all harddisc i/o) related issues. Memtest doesn't involve hard disc i/o at all - except swapping, which is outside of the control of Memtest. Thus disabling swapfile. However other tests with the CD-Rom revealed to me that the hard disc or SATA controller is not the source of the problems (still they might trigger errors e.g. due to high interrupt traffic).

AnybodyM:Both Dells in which i've so far been able to reproduce this bug (XPS M1330 + Vostro 1400) had a "WD1200BEVS-75UST0" Drive

Mine is different already: FUJITSU MHY2120BH.

I did much more to verify it's not hard disc related: E.g. I read linux driver source code to find those hard disc drives with NCQ defects.

AnybodyM:So if it's an incompatibility, it's now beyond any hardware I can change for myself.

I would like to know if somebody got his mainboard replaced by dell and the bug vanished! I'd also like to know if there's somebody (one!) with one of the affected notebooks: Dell XPS 1330, Latitude 630, 830, Vostro 1400 etc. and does not suffer from this bug.

AnybodyM:Not really a solution though, because I too will need the HDMI port soon and am dependent on good HDMI behavior.

I'm using HDMI on different monitors and video beamers. If you get to the point that the external monitor disappears in Windows and you can't select this output device, those two things help:
a) disable pivot services in Windows and/or driver
b) In case you still have problems: Boot by forcing booting splash screens to external monitor (Fn + F8).

AnybodyM:Do we have ANY specific report of someone who can reproduce
exactly THIS (and not some hard to pinpoint World of Warcraft problem)
on a machine that is NOT a Dell ?

I did google like an hour for Lenovo, HP devices containing GM965 chipset, but did not find any error reports yet.

7oby:
haidu:
I think that Dell realized that something is fishy because they
withdrawed all the more recent graphic drivers from their support site.
I can not confirm this one. Here's v.7.14.10.1409 for Lattitude D630, which is also affected:

I have an M1330 and I am positive that newer intel gma drivers were posted on Dell site (for M1330) and they are now erased. I even found links to erased files on their site. As related to D630 it may happen that D630 is far less popular than M1330 and they did not had enough complaints. One more argument is that the info for the D630 driver specifies M1330 although one can not find it under the M1330 downloads.
I have swapped the Fujitsu 120 GB hdd with a 320 WD and I had the same error so hdd is definitely not the problem (at least in my case).

Everyone, do you have the latest BIOS update in your laptop?

If the answer to the above question is "yes", I would stronly suggest you to return the laptop and ask for a working replacement.

IgorLevicki:Everyone, do you have the latest BIOS update in your laptop?

I tried various BIOS updates for my XPS M1330 up to and including A10 released 05/06/2008.

IgorLevicki:If the answer to the above question is "yes", I would stronly suggest you to return the laptop and ask for a working replacement.

At least there is a workaround (see above: installing old driver). I'd be curious if such a "working" replacement exists. I have not yet found anybody suffering NOT from this bug with this hardware (still that doesn't mean such person does not exist; maybe this guy). Please somebody raise his hand, to whom this doesn't apply!

Finally got past 1st, 2nd level support. Dell is investigating this issue. If they can reproduce it and fix it in software, they save a tremendous amount of money for swapping hardware components (e.g. motherboards) meaninglessly. Most people will only discover BSOD, DVD burning and verification errors, CRC checksum unpacking errors and hardly suspect the gfx driver for it.

I have a Dell Inspiron 1525 and Windows XP SP2 with latest gfx driver from Intel's website and ICH8M in AHCI mode with MSM 7.8. I do not have memory corruption or crashes. I even played Starwars: Battlefront for extended periods of time without any issues.

I am suspecting a hardware problem (perhaps a batch of partially defective or failing chips?) and I personally wouldn't settle for anything less than a pre-tested replacement laptop.

IgorLevicki:I have a Dell Inspiron 1525 and Windows XP SP2 with latest gfx driver from Intel's website and ICH8M in AHCI mode with MSM 7.8. I do not have memory corruption or crashes.

Unfortunately this bug is currently Windows Vista only related. Still thanks and maybe once you switched to Vista this thread turns out useful for you.

IgorLevicki:I am suspecting a hardware problem (perhaps a batch of partially defective or failing chips?)

You are exploring every possible source for the fault. That's nice. I had the same thought in this thread. Unfortunately the spread of manufactoring time of bug affected notebooks is quite big 07/2007 - 03/2008 which makes the theory of a faulty GM965 batch quiet unlikely.

Besides that people got mainboards holding the GM965 replaced (click or another one) and memory and hard drives exchanged (click). And ... nothing helped.

What version of Prime95 is being used? I am currently investigating this issue using version 25.5. I will keep you posted on progress.

What if the bug is due to Vista itself then? I had some stability issues with Vista x64 on my desktop computer when I knew that all components work fine (they were tested/replaced). That is actually the reason why I am not running Vista nor I intend to.

Couple of additional questions.

1. Does the issue occur in AERO Basic?

2. Does the issue occur with 1GB memory?

3 What are the DVMT setting in BIOS?

IgorLevicki:What if the bug is due to Vista itself then?

Microsoft Windows XP and Windows Vista are both incredible stable operating systems. It is well known that most instability issues are related to driver issues.

In 2007 all online reported Vista crashes reported to Microsoft have their source in components of the following vendors:
nVidia 28.81%
Microsoft 17,97%
Unknown 17,07%
AMD-ATI 9,30%
Intel 9,83%
...
source p.47 in this document or see here.

There is no such thing as an unstable Vista. This is well known also to Microsoft and they develop certification programs for drivers and extremely powerful tools to detect errors in drivers as soon as possible:
http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/devtools/tools/SDV.mspx

Therefore Vista itself is not the cause.

bikerfoo:What version of Prime95 is being used?

Only AnybodyM used Prime95 to detect this kind of error. I trust him that the version he used is Vista compatible. But it doesn't actually matter, since other methods (memory test within vista and md5 checksuming) also expose this bug.

Please use Memtest 3.6 which is Vista compatible and detects errors within a few seconds (less 30 secs):
http://hcidesign.com/memtest/

bikerfoo:1. Does the issue occur in AERO Basic?

I do have the M1330 using Vista Business 32 Bit and here the bug occurs regardless whether Aero is enabled or disabled.

bikerfoo:2. Does the issue occur with 1GB memory?

On my M1330 the error also occurs with just one memory module of 1GB installed - however maybe less frequent.
On D830 there is one report by MikeAP that his error disappears with just one module installed (click).

bikerfoo:3 What are the DVMT setting in BIOS?

Dell BIOS neither displays nor allows to change DVMT. Dell BIOS only displays the size of the linear framebuffer, which is mandatory since VESA 2.0 and is of 8MB size. Actually the allocation of DVMT is under the control of the operating system:
"The amount of video memory allocated depends upon the amount requested by the operating system."
http://www.intel.com/support/graphics/sb/CS-010488.htm
Using the older working drivers I can query from the intel tool:
Minimum Graphics Memory: 8 MB
Maximum Graphics Memory: 358 MB
Graphics Memory in Use: 177
MB

The actual used memory (here 177MB) changes during operation. I see 165 - 177MB within a single session. Those values do not seem to be different when installed one of the "bad" drivers above.

However DVMT is also something that came to my mind: Just consider what happens if the driver dynamically reduces the video memory and forgets to alter the Page Attribute Table / MTRR processor registers to switch from WriteCombining Caching strategy as used by framebuffers to WriteBack/WriteThrough. Strong ordering of read/write requests is no longer given => memory corruption.

XP is stable, that I give you but Vista... no way except perhaps 32-bit version but even there I would think twice before trusting it with my data. Driver model has changed, DRM has been implanted everywhere such a deadly combination of changes is bound to start cracking at seams.

As for that "reliability study" it is a joke. It looks like NVIDIA has the most crashes but those account for video, disk, network, and audio drivers. How do we know the exact percentages? And what is "unknown"?!? Isn't driver signing mandatory? If Microsoft doesn't know whose drivers caused the crash then how can we continue to trust their WHQL certification program? And what about those crashes where Microsoft is to blame (for example kernel bug) and vendor's driver gets caught redhanded?

As for your issue, get some program to dump PCI address space (actual configuration) of GMCH. Make dumps with working and with non-working drivers and compare. Perhaps you catch something.

Also check if the non-working driver is sharing an IRQ and whether it has the same address space listed in device manager as the older one.

Another thing to do is to note the GMCH revision (using Everest) and your CPU stepping and microcode update version.

Everyone, do you have the latest BIOS update in your laptop?

Yes. On both my M1330 as well as the Vostro 1400.

I would stronly suggest you to return the laptop and ask for a working replacement.

There quite likely may not be any working replacements.

What version of Prime95 is being used? I am currently investigating this issue using version 25.5.

I used 25.6, but 25.5 is fine. Just don't use the very old version from www.mersenne.org. Latest versions are available on the ftp://www.mersenne.org/gimps
How to use Prime95 in Vista: Select Torture Test, Select "Blend" Test. Select "Custom" Test. Reduce memory size from 1750 to 1500MB.
(testing 1750MB is too much for Vista, since vista needs more on its own)

You might want to try the "memtest" that 7oby linked to, though. I only tried it once, but it really detected the problem faster than Prime (which needs ~2-3 minutes usually to fail)

What if the bug is due to Vista itself then? I had some stability issues

I've got Vista working perfectly on a number of machines. Vista has no inherent stability issues.

2. Does the issue occur with 1GB memory?

Never tried that, but it does occur with 4GB memory.
(I used 2x Prime95 each running one Blend Torture thread with 1500MB)

XP is stable, that I give you but Vista... no way except perhaps 32-bit version but even there I would think twice before trusting it with my data.

Please refrain from unneccessary Microsoft Bashing. Vista may not be the greatest Invention since sliced bread, but there's nothing inherently unstable about it. I'm using 64bit Vista on my main Desktop PC and i have ZERO data corruption and had ZERO bluescreens in the last months even though its heavily used.
(Well at least since nVidia fixed their drivers, those first few months really weren't great - The report 7oby linked to correctly identifies the initial driver woes that plagued some manufactureres the first half year - but that time has long passed)

Another thing to do is to note the GMCH revision, your CPU stepping and microcode update version.

That would be very interesting to compare once we find a laptop which does NOT exhibit this problem :-)
Perhaps the latest steppings of the GPU core introduced a flaw that was not present from the beginning?
Not very likely though, as hardware bugs tend to get eliminated with new revisions and not introduced...

Not very likely though, as hardware bugs tend to get eliminated with new revisions and not introduced...

I meant more like a batch of bad chips spanning certain date range — for example if a fly has managed to get into the factory and contaminate wafers.

IgorLevicki:
Not very likely though, as hardware bugs tend to get eliminated with new revisions and not introduced...

I meant more like a batch of bad chips spanning certain date range for example if a fly has managed to get into the factory and contaminate wafers.

Igor's point is clear and good. As stated already unlikely though: Two D630 shipped in Sept 2007 (click) and one M1330 shipped late March 2008 (click).

I received a new batch of D630's last week and I got around to testing today.

I wanted to try out the new DX10 Vista driver v15.9.0.1472 dated April 25,2008.

I tested it on Windows Vista 32bit and as soon as I started memtest I received the error.

I just installed the Windows XP drivers in Windows Vista 32bit v6.14.10.4935 dated March 21st 2008 and so far have gone for 15+ minutes in memtest without any issues.

We haven't deployed Vista yet due to strange issues like these and the fact that most of our users are external to the company and are not that bright with computers (maintenance/construction people).

For those people thar MUST use Vista on a Dell Latitude D630/M1330 then it looks like you're better off using the latest XP driver until Intel/Dell get's their act together.

Dell has confirmed to me that they were able to reproduce this bug on their own machines. Intel is informed as well by Dell.

Since some people expressed doubt in the significance of memtest and instead assumed memtest itself performs flawy on integrated chipsets, let's make this one clear one more time:

. Yes, actual data is corrupted. E.g. burn a DVD and compare.
. Yes there exist other test cases to reproduce this bug on real data. Prime95 (with big FFT to stress memory) has been mentioned. Or do something like

@echo off
FOR /L %%G IN (1,1,10) DO (
MD5SUM.EXE -c checksum_for_big_file.md5
)

This one loops 10 times over a file and compares it's checksum with a precalculated one.

However in other test cases it may take several terabyte (!) to compare and take hours for this bug to show up.

Great job Tobias!

Lexi, could you see to it that this issue gets proper treatment as soon as possible?

Hi Igor,

Members of the engineering team responsible for the graphics drivers dovisit and participate here from time to time, and I know theytook notice of this thread last week.

==

Lexi S.

IntelSoftware NetworkSupport

http://www.intel.com/software

Contact us

There's some progress:

05/15/2008 : Dell contacted me and confirmed the bug being present on their machines as well. Dell informed intel.
05/20/2008 : Received a non public fix from Dell for testing purpose. Using this fix I can no longer reproduce data corruption. Reported the results back to Dell.
05/22/2008 : The fix entered release pipeline. It is particular for some Dell systems and will finally show up on their webpage. Still validation and synchronization with other fixes has to be done such that the ETA is not known yet.
06/02/2008 : asked for status update on ETA
06/16/2008 : asked for status update on ETA
06/22/2008 : BIOS Update with Fix for Dell Latitude D630 appeared. Please Test!
06/23/2008 : Received an answer from dell. Most likely related to M1330 status, which says: Soon to be released.

This makes me confident that soon a solution will be available that allows to use more recent display drivers than 7.14.10.1272 (v15.2.6) dated 05/11/2007 without data corruption.

Great, can you share it with us and report here or to you the results. Otherwise, whom do we have to contact at Dell and ask for the fix?

haidu:Great, can you share it with us and report here or to you the results.

The fix explictly mentions that I must not share the fix.

haidu: Otherwise, whom do we have to contact at Dell and ask for the fix?

It looks like Dell/Intel has sufficient information together to prepare a final fix and release the latter one. Given the recent progress regarding this issue makes me confident that this happens very soon. I am myself very ambitious in having this one fixed and will post any updates I have on this issue here.

Regarding the e-mail: Currently I see no reason to bother those guys anymore - instead give them the time they need to get their work done

Actually, I do not share your tolerance. As I said the graphics driver update was made automatically by vista. As a result, probably due to hard disk data corruption Vista stopped working. Corroborated with the bright invention that Vista can not be repaired, but only reinstalled, my laptop was unusuable for more than 2 weeks. I am not involved in computer bussiness and I was lucky to have a backup laptop otherwise I should have been forced to buy a new one. I am not interested whose main fault is (Dell, Intel or Microsoft) but that is a black mark for Dell particulaly. In my opinion this kind of slip is not acceptable due to its gravity and spreading.

@Haidu

You're absolutely right - this bug is very severe and a huge problem - certainly produced more corrupted data on customers laptops than the FDIV bug. Still - the bug has been out for months, two additional weeks to test the fix won't make a big difference now since we've got a working workaround with the old drivers.

@7oby

Thank you very much for pursuing this issue so persistently with Dell! I don't even want to know how long it would have taken them to notice it without your involvement...

Does anyone know if a new version with this fix has been published yet?

I have a Gateway GT Series quad core machine that is experiencing the same behavior. I detected the issue attempting to install Vista 32 SP1 which failed with an internal error. Running SFC results in detection of uncorrectable file errors when 4gig of ram is installed in the system. Remove 1gig and SFC runs clean.

I did a full Vista install with 4gig and ran SFC immediately after the install finished and it indicated there were uncorrectable file errors. Performed this again with 2gig and SFC detected no problems.

Just so that you guys know, I have reproduced the memory corruption error on my Dell Vostro 1400 with BIOS A07(newest).

T5670 with 4GB DDR2-800 ram, X3100

This problem is BIOS related because I wiped Vista off of it and put Ubuntu 8.04 LTS 64bit version on, and with compiz turned on, programs would randomly crash when massive amount of memory is in use(VMware virtual machines)

I even tested OSX86, and it would crash the startup screen with QE CI. Search the osx86 forums, Dell X3100 and GM950 laptopsare notoriously difficult for the osx86 guys.

The problem is that X3100 can dynamically allocate the memory it uses from Main System memory. And Dell's BIOS DOES NOT let you assign a hard number allocated to the X3100. SoDell's BIOS is "RANDOMLY" increasing and decreasing main memory allocation for the X3100 based on their "algorithm", and Intel and Vista (or Ubuntu or osx86) do not have the code to detect the change, therefore overwrites the area of memory that used to be video card memory.

The solution should be on Dell's part. They should give users an option to allocate a static amount of system memory in binary steps(8MB,16MB, 32MB....all the way to the max X3100 is allowing 384MB) and give an option to lock the memory allocation so it is no longer driver dependent or OS dependent for that matter. BTW, Dell, if you see this page, you should add in the DDR2-800 memory support for the Vostro 1400(many others I assume)

I want to see this in the A08 BIOS for Vostro 1400.

For Dell Engineers:

The solution to this problem is not to dynamically allocate memory based on resolution. For example, in Ubuntu, if you use VMware, VMware itself can randomly change the resolution of the screen. If you use external monitors, that can dynamically change the memory required to be allocated. Another reason that a resolution based algorithm doesn't work is for 3D. For example, a 3D desktop on the same resolution consumes way more than the 8MB default memory, causing Vista Aero/Ubuntu Compiz/OSx86to corrupt the video memory(or the video card corrupting system memory). Also the BIOS should check the boundary conditions since we are at the time where 4GB of memory is only 80 dollars, making the 32bit/64bit memory boundary almost everybody's problem.

Giving BIOS options to statically allocate memory and lock it is a pretty good way to do it since X3100 doesn't really use up that much ram(384MB out of 4GB is peanuts for people who work in 3D desktops)

taoshen1983,

It seems that you believe that Dell engineers (as opposed to Intel engineers) are reading Intel Software Network Forums.

Perhaps some of them do, but in my opinion this info should have been posted on Dell forum or communicated with their technical support first.

Don't get me wrong, I am all for the quick resolution of this issue because driver or BIOS error resulting in data loss for the customer is simply inexcusable and if Dell and Intel do not get their act together quickly your next step should be to inform the press.

Igor:

Since this thread is about "memory corruption errors on Dell machines", of course I would expect Dell engineers to have read it multiple times until the problem is fixed.

This problem started by Intel of course to decide that DVMT is a good idea. I mean it is great when you have 512MB of ram so you wouldn't want to waste 384MB of it on video. But given today's memory pricing environment, the whole motivation for DVMT is eliminated. Nobody should be running less than 4GB of ram on their new laptopsand 64bit OS today(even for 32bit backward compatibility.) So assigning a 8MB starting buffer in the BIOS and not allowing the users to allocate themselves is asking for trouble. Also DVMT causes software dependency issues. Imaging say Ubuntu Compiz detects video memory at one point and later it is shrunk to a smaller value, it will crash the program. I know because Ubuntu right now randomly crashes with Compiz Enabled on the Vostro 1400.(With all latest patches via apt-get upgrade)

Anyways, I would expect the Intel engineers to shoot Dell engineers a memo "hey dudes, fix your DVMT code in the BIOS". So it is perfectly appropriate for me to address the Dell engineers instead of Intel engineers here.

taoshen1983,

For the sake of others I must address one of your points — you say:

Nobody should be running less than 4GB of ram on their new laptops and 64bit OS today(even for 32bit backward compatibility.)

You are generalizing, which is always a bad thing. Not everyone can afford 4GB of RAM in their laptop, and a lot of people don't need that much memory.

I imagine you are not buying popcorn when you are not feeling like eating them even though they are dirt cheap?

For example, I have only 1GB of RAM in my Dell Inspiron 1525 and I am a software developer who knows how to utilize extra RAM. I have Windows XP SP3 and truth is that it works just fine for me.

Frankly, I am against system memory sharing -- every IGP should have its own 256MB of VRAM soldered to the mainboard so it doesn't have to compete for resources. That would be much better long-term solution and nobody would have to buy extra RAM.

I would also like to ask you have you been able to verify (using some diagnostic tool or by looking at the configuration registers in X3100 address space) that the DVMT window size change is actually happening on resolution change?

Another thing to consider is whether you have tested both stable and development branches of Compiz? What happens if you run other OpenGL applications? What happens if you run Windows XP? You sound like you are tech savvy, have you perhaps checked the BIOS code you believe is faulty?

"You are generalizing, which is always a bad thing. Not everyone can
afford 4GB of RAM in their laptop, and a lot of people don't need that
much memory."

I remember Bill Gates said 640K memory is the most "people needed". I guess my point is that if you can afford a 800 dollar laptop, you(assuming reasonable) should be willing to spend 70-80 dollars on 2x2GB sticks of DDR2-800 SODIMM memory. Now you might not be willing to spend 300 dollars on the "4GB memory upgrade" at the laptop vendors, but 80 dollars and unscrewing 2 screws to upgrade memory yourself is a 2 minute thing. If you use VMware, instantly you are using 2GB per virtual machine(1GB for the VM, and 1GB for the OS files cached in memory) So with 4GB of ram, you are limited to a max of 3 VMs running. With memory that cheap, my standard config is 4GB for laptops, 8GB for single socket PCs, and 16GB for dual socket workstations/servers and even 32GB+ for MySQL boxes(16 sticks of 2GB mem) The whole point is cache cache cache, everything should be out of ram :)

"Frankly, I am against system memory sharing -- every IGP should have
its own 256MB of VRAM soldered to the mainboard so it doesn't have to
compete for resources. That would be much better long-term solution and
nobody would have to buy extra RAM."

IGP was designed to shave cost and power consumption. 256MB of VRAM is a lot of ram to be soldered onto a mobo, (You are taking minimum of 2 1Gbit ICs or 4 512Mbit ICs) and the interface pins to them is expensive to put on a IGP chip. I agree it is better, but Intel don't do it. I picked X3100 mainly to save battery life. Having a Geforce 8600M would mean 30 minutes less battery life.

No, I haven't profiled the X3100 address space for the configuration registers. I simply said Dell should expose the DVMT settings X3100 in the BIOS to alleviate the software dependence of having to check the video memory size every time you do something video related and and having to dynamically scale shared memory. The point is, with memory at this prices(35 dollars for a 2GB stick), it is not wise to save 2-4 dollars worth of ram to cause data corruptions. But yes, Dell should fix it as soon as possible. Right now I am left in Ubuntu 8.04 64bit with latest updates and VMware, and it would crash randomly(about 30-60 minutes depends on how many times I do Compiz functions or VMware screen resolution changes) I am sure it is the X3100 related, since memtest would pass.

taoshen1983:The problem is that X3100 can dynamically allocate the memory it uses
from Main System memory. And Dell's BIOS DOES NOT let you assign a
hard number allocated to the X3100. SoDell's BIOS is "RANDOMLY"
increasing and decreasing main memory allocation for the X3100 based on
their "algorithm", and Intel and Vista (or Ubuntu or osx86) do not have
the code to detect the change

You judge far too fast.

The way DVMT works in Windows XP and Windows Vista is completely different. The differences are described in section "Dynamic Video Memory" in this document:

http://software.intel.com/en-us/articles/intel-gma-3000-and-x3000-developers-guide

After you have read that, you can conclude that your proposed solution with a fixed video memory allocation in BIOS does not work for Vista. Maybe there's a registry key, which can restrict DVMT in Vista, but that's a different story.

You further assume Dell's BIOS randomly increase and decrease video memory allocation. This is a wrong assumption. It's the Operting System, which decides when and how much to increase video memory. And a different part of the operating system has to make sure before shifting memory to video memory that no used memory pages are in this area.

I have done a tremendous amount of testing with Ubuntu 8.04 and MacOS X 10.5.1/10.5.3 on my machine myself. Based on this testing, I can say: The bug is not present there (as well as yet not in Windows XP).

Yes, you are right: Neither the Ubuntu 8.04 intel drivers (although open source) nor the MacOS drivers are really good in either system. The intel X drivers have plenty of bugs and crash compiz-fusion once in a while. But those bugs are - based on my testing - unrelated. I have reported some bugs to bugzilla for the upstream intel driver myself (and meanwhile those bugs got finally fixed ;-)

Besides that you might have regonized that the memory allocation for X looks quite static. It's 256MB

(II) intel(0): Fixed memory allocation layout:
(II) intel(0): 0x00000000-0x0001ffff: ring buffer (128 kB)
(II) intel(0): 0x00020000-0x00029fff: HW cursors (40 kB)
(II) intel(0): 0x0002a000-0x00031fff: logical 3D context (32 kB)
(II) intel(0): 0x00032000-0x00041fff: exa G965 state buffer (64 kB)
(II) intel(0): 0x00042000-0x00042fff: overlay registers (4 kB)
(II) intel(0): 0x00100000-0x0280ffff: front buffer (40000 kB) X tiled
(II) intel(0): 0x0077f000:end of stolen memory
(II) intel(0): 0x02810000-0x095ecfff: exa offscreen (112500 kB)
(II) intel(0): 0x095ed000-0x0baa4fff: back buffer (37600 kB) X tiled
(II) intel(0): 0x0baa5000-0x0df5cfff: depth buffer (37600 kB) Y tiled
(II) intel(0): 0x0df5d000-0x0ff5cfff: classic textures (32768 kB)
(II) intel(0): 0x10000000:end of aperture

The solution should be on Dell's part.

If there's a bug, there are always at least two (in general even more) ways to fix it: 1) fix the bug and 2) make sure it doesn't show up. You can see already from the fact that some older drivers work flawlessly
in Vista (see my second posting in this thread) that this also applies to this bug. The point is: For those two solutions, two different parties may be involved. In this case here solution 1) can be fixed by Dell whilst 2) is Intel. This is a very common case: Consider some standard e.g. HDMI and audio codecs. It may happen that you connect to HDMI devices from two different vendors, but you don't hear any sound. One device may interpret the HDMI standard different than the other. Either one has to change its behavior to adhere to HDMI standard or the other device may incorporate a walkaround/fix/special treatment for this particular device. If you ever get the chance to have a look at driver code (e.g. Linux/*BSD drivers are open source) you will exactly see what I'm trying to explain here.

But you're right here the final bugfix that's going to be released is indeed a Video BIOS update. Unfortunately there's no end user way to patch the Video BIOS from the intel developer drivers into your main BIOS. That means: You can't do it yourself currently.

BTW, Dell, if you see this page, you should add in the DDR2-800 memory support for the Vostro 1400(many others I assume)

Check intel's chipset documentation. GM965 is limited to DDR2-667 and will never drive DDR2-800. However every DDR2-800 memory has timings for DDR2-667 operation contained into SPD and thus works at DDR2-677 speed in Dell's notebooks. If you've a memory module that doesn't work at all, check SPD timings.

I remember Bill Gates said 640K memory is the most "people needed".

That sentence is most likely incorrectly attributed to him. I have heard that it has been said by the IMB director. Whatever way it is you should not compare yourself with them because you are not THAT successfull to afford such "mistakes". If you were THAT successfull, you could have afforded a laptop with ATI or NVIDIA GPU and thus no corruption to begin with.

I guess my point is that if you can afford a 800 dollar laptop, you (assuming reasonable) should be willing to spend 70-80 dollars on 2x2GB sticks of DDR2-800 SODIMM memory.

As I said willing is one thing, being able to is another. But I guess you are too self-centered to understand that $800 can be twice someone's monthly salary? I am not talking about myself here, just reminding you that there are a lot of people who could not afford laptops if they all came preinstalled with 4GB of memory.

Now you might not be willing to spend 300 dollars on the "4GB memory upgrade" at the laptop vendors, but 80 dollars and unscrewing 2 screws to upgrade memory yourself is a 2 minute thing.

I have no problems upgrading memory myself after building dozens of PCs for me, friends, and customers alike. However, I have a desktop machine which I use for "heavy lifting" so I really do not require that much RAM in a laptop. As I said you are generalizing based on your personal usage pattern — you are assuming that everyone uses VMWare and MySQL on a daily basis.

As for the issue you believe you are having, 7oby already said what I have been suspecting from your first post.

7oby:

My bad, I knew the santa rosa platform was 800Mhz. Didn't realize that Intel chose to do an asychoronous memory at 667Mhz to save power(even though 800Mhz vs 667Mhz ram isn't that much different in power, about 2W)

So I see that Ubuntu Compiz is crashing, still it is on the X3100, not on other video cards.

Igor:

Somehow you like to provoke people to continue arguing with you. First of all, your point that 800 dollars is someone's 2months worth of salary is irrelevant since we are not talking about the cost of the laptop, but the cost of adding 4GB of memory. It assumes that you have purchased your laptop, and trying to figure out how much you would gain by adding 10% cost to the final cost to have 4G of ram. I would argue based on my experience that a single core with 4GB of ram compared to a dual core with 1GB of ram. Once you hit the swap in Vmware or MySQL, you are screwed.

The fact that you say i am self-centered for recommending a 4GB configuration is baseless. It is simply that people don't know the benefit trade offs between components. Today's CPUs are fast enough, it is all about ram and once you max out your ram, you have to rely on raw Disk IO. It all depends on how much data you crunch every day. If you are encoding movies all day, then 1GB is enough. Programming, I say you need more, since you want the entire compilation to be in ram. Unless you are writing 10K programs, then 1GB would do.

Third, since when is the choice of the Vostro dictate level of success? Your argument that a more "successful" person should choose an Nvidia GPU is stupid since I am not gaming or anything and I told you in a couple of posts before that I value battery life over GPU performance, therefore X3100 was the choice. And Bill Gates did say 640K is enough. You can google it.

Igor, I don't really want to spend any more time here, since it is in fact a critical bug still open that prevents any newer Intel drivers to be loaded without the data corruption. Dell's drivers are from 7/2007 which is almost 1 year old now, it is unacceptable and I expect an update as soon as possible. The fact that Compiz stable branch in Ubuntu 8.04 crashes randomly is also a strike against X3100. While it might be that Compiz is leaking memory, not the X3100 linux drivers. That remains to be seen. Lastly, if I am too soon to jump to conclusions, you are an Intel employee located outside of United States. All I can say is that people should be happy with their choice of hardware. You can be happy with your 1GB ram, and I will be happy with my 4GB on my laptop. Don't respond unless Intel fixed the problem.

Thanks,

taoshen1983:Nobody should be running less than 4GB of ram on their new laptopsand 64bit OS today(even for 32bit backward compatibility.)

taoshen1983, are those your words? I added emphasis to the part I am having an issue with — what you said basically means that when buying a new laptop people should shell out for 4GB of RAM whether they need it or not.

taoshen1983:First of all, your point that 800 dollars is someone's 2 months worth of salary is irrelevant since we are not talking about the cost of the laptop, but the cost of adding 4GB of memory.

On the contrary, it is very relevant — $80 is 10% of a laptop cost as you say, but it is also a 20% of someone's $400 monthly salary. Besides, do you really think that people would not buy a laptop with 4GB installed to begin with if they had enough money to spare? Please use your brain cells.

taoshen1983:Once you hit the swap in Vmware or MySQL, you are screwed. The fact that you say i am self-centered for recommending a 4GB configuration is baseless.

Wrong again. 90% of people do not use MySQL and VMWare so you are self-centered for taking those as an example of a typical laptop workload. Also, your tone ("Nobody should be running...") doesn't sound recommending but demanding instead. Perhaps it is the language barrier?

taoshen1983:Lastly, if I am too soon to jump to conclusions, you are an Intel employee located outside of United States.

You are jumping indeed... I am not an Intel employee, just a regular software engineer dealing with code optimization who by sheer misfortune lives in a poor country with a lot of poor people around — that allows me to also see things from a perspective different than your own.

taoshen1983:And Bill Gates did say 640K is enough. You can google it. Igor

So can you, but seems you didn't — here, look under Misattributed.

Getting back to the issue at hand — if I were you, I would at least try the development branch of Compiz to see if it improves anything and make sure they are at least aware of the issue if it doesn't. As for the Dell drivers, nobody is forcing you to use those — go here, and get the latest Intel drivers for GMA965.

Yesterday, Dell released a new BIOS version (A11) for the XPS M1330 notebooks. Has anybody with such a machine already testet, if it fixes the problem there? Unfortunately, the changelog mentions only an "Added enhancement for thermal control", which does not sound very promising.
Concerning my own machine (Latitude D830), there have been no updates since 5/22/2008. By now, I am really getting impatient ...

Regards, jenz

jenzd:Yesterday, Dell released a new BIOS version (A11) for the XPS M1330 notebooks. Has anybody with such a machine already testet, if it fixes the problem there?

Unfortunately the A11 BIOS does NOT contain the fix. I tested it (and I knew by reading the changelog).

I have a small script that gives me every morning the new BIOS versions:

ftp -A -s:get_dir.txt ftp.dell.com >updates.txt
diff baseline.txt updates.txt

Therefore I'm watching D530/630/830, Vostro 1400 etc.

I was told the fix entered release pipeline, but as we can see: It didn't or got delayed. It's more than 4 weeks ago since a fix was known.

Thus I got back in touch with Dell and they will update me on the expected release date.

BIOS update A12 for Dell Latitude D630 is supposed to fix memory corruption!

Please test and report! Report the Video BIOS version please (before and after). The Video BIOS is a four digit number displayed inside the BIOS Menu in one of the upper sections. You can also access the number through igfxcfg (System Control / Intel GMA Driver for Mobile) selecting "Information" or "i".

Fixes/Enhancements
------------------
1. Updated Intel Video BIOS.
2. Enhancement for thermal control.

Direct link:
http://ftp.us.dell.com/bios/D630_A12.EXE
ftp://ftp.dell.com/bios/D630_A12.EXE

Do you have any idea when this BIOS update will be available for XPS M1330?

yuriylsh:Do you have any idea when this BIOS update will be available for XPS M1330?

Please read this posting (especially the note 06/23/2008):
http://softwarecommunity.intel.com/isn/Community/en-US/forums/permalink/30257484/30255221/ShowThread.aspx#30255221

Dell is definitly working on it and I expect a release very soon. I received a testing bios, which has this bug already fixed. I'm not allowed to share this one though. Instead I'm pushing Dell to release a public fix. Meaning it looks they got more customer complains about this issue, which might speed up the process.

Great!

Thank you so much for your effort to speed up the process!

I assume there is no Vista 64 bit version of these for a 1330:

7.14.10.1272 (v15.2.6)
7.14.10.1268 (v15.4.1)
7.14.10.1255 (v15.4)
7.14.10.1253 (v15.2.4)

-Funk

thefunks67:I assume there is no Vista 64 bit version of these for a 1330:
7.14.10.1272 (v15.2.6)
7.14.10.1268 (v15.4.1)
7.14.10.1255 (v15.4)
7.14.10.1253 (v15.2.4)

I found these:

7.14.10.1255 (v15.4) for Vista64
7.14.10.1253 (v15.2.4) for Vista64

Basically what you can do to get more updated drivers is to search the support homepages of HP, ThinkPad etc. for their professional products and use their drivers. Only the professional product line will feature Vista64 drivers.

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