GPS sensor not working/active in Intel Ultrabook?

GPS sensor not working/active in Intel Ultrabook?

I´m working on an application for Windows 8 desktop as part of the CodeProject/Intel AppUp contest.

For this contest I have received an Intel Ultrabook to test my app. Thanks, this is a really nice PC - very fast.

 

I have a problem with the GPS location sensor, as it seems that when I use the Windows 8 location sensor api, I can only get wifi based location data (around 100m accuracy)

If I´m connected to a wifi network I can get location data, but not very accurate. If I disconnect from then network, I never receive valid GPS positions.

 

I have Win 8 RTM installed and also all the latest drivers from Intel.

 

Can anyone provide some solid knowledge about why this does not work or what to do to make it work.

GPS based location with high position accuracy is a must for my app to work.

 

Thanks

Peter

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Hi Peter,

I'm working on something similar and have the same issue. I often see a response with lat 0 long 0 and accuracy 0. I have never seen Altitude or Speed returned. I'm in conversation with Norman (Intel) and he has seen it working but it needed to be outdoors to get sync with satellites.

David

Hi David,
I have also been outside with my UB to see if that made any difference, but unfortunately not.
I was wondering if I was missing a driver or there was some place I had to "activate" the GPS chip.
I have looked in the BIOS settings, but could´nt find anything related to GPS.

I hope someone at Intel can come up with an answer..

Peter

Hi Peter,

I have been searching through every setting I can to no avail. Hopefully I'll hear from Norman later.

Where are you based?

David

Checking with EPS engineer, to get answer, seen multiple related questions here. Will respond here when I get an answer.

Hi Norman,

Thanks in advance,

David

Thanks Norman,
I really appreciate it. This problem takes far too much time from my application programming, as I keep trying to search for information related to this issue.

To David: I'm from Denmark :-)

Peter

Peter, har en god aften.

David

I also posted about this issue on the CodeProject website before coming here, and maybe there is a little info there for you guys.

Here is a link to my initial posting and the conversation going on at the moment:
http://www.codeproject.com/Messages/4412294/Can-anyone-get-GPS-location-...

I'll keep you posted on any progress...

David: Du må også have en god aften :-)

Peter

Hi Peter,

I'll have a good read through your posts in the morning when I'm note trying to read it on my phone. I saw approximately 1 minute updating of geolocation data at home but here in Ireland I was getting crazy lat/long and odd updates. Accuracy returning 0 so the API isn't robust.

David

PS. I have a few friends in various parts of Denmark from the south of Jutland to north of Copenhagen.

Hello all,
So I've been trying to get to the bottom of the GPS not updating correctly. Have you all gone to Intel Premier Support and registered your device?
http://software.intel.com/en-us/articles/joining-intel-premier-support

Also, I recommend that you all update to Windows 8 RTM.

Once you do that, you will find all the drivers to be downloaded and installed. Please get all the zip files and download them from Intel Premier Support.

In particular, don't forget Sensor_FW_179645.zip, that will address the Sensor Hub.

Please let me know what happens, I like to track this issue.

If you have more questions, please email me at norman.chou@intel.com

Thanks for being patient,
Norm

Hi Norm,

I think there's a 'l' missing from your email address above.- I think it should be norman.chou@intel.com.

David

The Ultrabook works on AGPS (Assisted GPS). You will not be able to get geo co-ordinates from gps satellites.
Hope this helps.

Hi Mahesh,

Assisted GPS uses approximate location data from WiFi/IP and, in the case of Cellphones, Cell data to reduce the time taken by the GPS receivers to sync with the GPS satellites so I'm not sure what exactly you are saying. Do you mean:

1 There are no GPS receivers in the Ultrabook?

or

2 There are GPS receivers in the Ultrabook but there is no way to access satellite data?

or

3 Something else?

David

Here is just a short update on my issues with the GPS functionality.
I have been in direct contact with Norman Chou about the problems and we have tried some things which has unfortunately still not solved the issue.

The issue has now been reported to Premier support.

Peter

PS: I agree completely with what David writes. The Ultrabook I have is according to the documentation fitted with a Fastrax IT430 GPS module - this is a "real" gps module which may or may not get help from other location services during startup (getting a position fix), in that case it is called AGPS.

Hi Peter,

Can you drop me a PM to davida@1854concepts.com?

David

I am aware of the following issues with the GPS in the reference hardware:

  1. Location reports are sometimes zero'd out or missing digits. For example, if your latitude is 45.54 N you might find it reported as 4.54, 0.54, or just 0. Sometimes both latitude and longitude show up as 0.
  2. Speed and heading are always NULL values.
  3. The estimated positional accuracy/error is always 0 meters. This will actually prevent the Windows 8 Geolocation sensor from choosing the GPS over Wi-Fi triangulation. I don't know what the mechanism is for sure, but my best guess is that Windows does not consider "0" to be a valid accuracy, and so it ignores it if other location inputs are available. To force Windows to use the GPS in this situation you have to disable the wireless radio by turning on airplane mode. (For more information on the Geolocation sensor and where it gets its data from, see my post The WinRT Location API: Where did my location data come from?)

Like Norman, I have been pursuing this issue internally but the best thing you can do is file issues with Premier Support. External customers and developers can carry much more weight than us employees.

Quote:

John Mechalas (Intel) wrote:

Like Norman, I have been pursuing this issue internally but the best thing you can do is file issues with Premier Support. External customers and developers can carry much more weight than us employees.

Hi John,
Given that Intel are priding themeselves on the Ultrabooks having these sensors, you would think they [Intel] would be doing everything possible under the sun to ensure they are working correctly, and when issues like these arise, they are dealt with a sense of urgency and fixed.

Cheers,
Dave

Hi Dave,

I'm sure if it was a simple fix Intel would have sorted it. It may be a hardware issue but from what I understand it might be an interaction between the low level device driver and the MS API. It will be interesting to see if other devices have issues. I'd really like to know if anyone has access to Surfaces to see how they behave.

David

All this is great feedback, please continue to add to this discussion. For context, I've worked with a lot of developers who had sensor issues, and Norm's approached of upgrading OS and getting drivers from Premier Support worked every time, but I dont believe they had GPS issues.

If you have upgraded the OS and installed the drivers from Premier Support, be clear with us that you have done these steps so we can rule that out and escalate accordingly.

Thanks!

Hi Bob,

Will do. Just for your info, I understand this problem has been seen elsewhere:

"I’ve just spoken to a colleague in France who sent out the same UB you received to some of his developers, and they’re having the same problems."

Obviously it would be good to collect feedback from as many as possible so is there a mechanism to request feedback from UB developers or at least point them here?

Best regards,

David

Quote:

Bob Duffy (Intel) wrote:

If you have upgraded the OS and installed the drivers from Premier Support, be clear with us that you have done these steps so we can rule that out and escalate accordingly.

Hi Bob, I download all the available latest drivers from the Intel site as available for the SDP. Win8 Pro is also fully up to date and activated with a key from my MSDN account.

I also previously tried disabling the WIFI using Airplane mode AND by simply disconnecting any currently connected wifi connections. Both of these approaches made no difference.

Hi John and Bob,
Thanks for your comments, I appreciate that someone takes this problem seriously.

Here is an update on my situation.
I reported my problems with the GPS to Premier support and they suggested that I sent back the PUBRD unit and then they would send me a replacement unit. I received the replacement unit Friday and did some testing before doing any updates.

Basically what I see is exactly what you (John) describes in your comment. I am using the Microsoft program "Sensor Diagnostics Tool" to see GPS data. I can actually get valid GPS location data after approx. 1 minute outside. This indicates to me that the hardware (GPS module and antennas) are OK! But I also see the issue with digits missing from the latitude/longitude data, some times more than other, but the data is not stable.
Accuracy is always reported as 0. I believe that you are right in the assumption that the GPS data are not used by the location provider (MS) when the accuracy is 0. When I switch off the wifi (= Airplane mode) I can actually see gps data on Bing Maps - but still not stable...

I have now also tried to update the sensor drivers to the one Norm pointed out in another posting in this thread (Sensor_FW_179645.zip). That has not helped as I get an error during the DFU firmware upgrade as described in step 6 in the documentation from the Sensor_FW_179645.zip file. See the attached screendump.
If I then performs step 7 then it looks to me (when I look in device manager) that it just restores the device driver to the one that was initially installed (Intel Sensor Solution PUBRD, version 6.2.8250.0).
Anyway, In my opinion it looks like a software issue either in the driver implementation or in the way the driver and windows 8 are supposed to talk to each other.
A suggestion for debugging the issue is if the (Intel) driver developer could just set the accuracy return value different from 0 (e.g. 10m) - if that could force windows to recognize the gps data that would be a lot better (even though we don't have a valid accuracy).

Basically I have not come any nearer a solution to my initial problem as I don't get valid and stable gps data which I can use in my own programs :-(

I can of course open a new issue with Premier Support, but I can't see why you should not be able to take it to someone (Intel tech.) who can actually fix the problem based on the writing going on in this forum. Also the CodeProject forum is full of similar questions on the GPS sensor problem. But then again I also don't know how things work internally at Intel.

I'm willing to help testing and providing feedback if there is even the smallest chance to get this problem solved.

Thanks for taking you time to comment.

Peter

Fichiers joints: 

Fichier attachéTaille
Télécharger dfu-load-error.png137.1 Ko

Hi Everyone,

I'm also experiencing the same issue with GPS usage. No Wifi = no locations despite the internal Ultrabooks GPS.

thanks all. Appreciate the feedback, and Im learning more in the process. More info we gather the better, Would be interesting if people have tested in certain Geographies at various times of day to see if there is a difference

8 < Would be interesting if people have tested in certain Geographies at various times of day to see if there is a differenceHi Bob,

Well according to my UB I have... ;o)

Seriously I'm off to Switzerland and will do checks again.

David

Quote:

Bob Duffy (Intel) wrote:

thanks all. Appreciate the feedback, and Im learning more in the process. More info we gather the better, Would be interesting if people have tested in certain Geographies at various times of day to see if there is a difference

Hi Bob,

I agree that the more data/information we have the better, but I'm also pretty sure this is not related to where in the world we test (unless you are out of reach of the GPS satellites of course).

Anyway, I'm located in Denmark, where GPS normally works just fine.

Peter

Quote:

Dave A. wrote:

Quote:

John Mechalas (Intel) wrote:

Like Norman, I have been pursuing this issue internally but the best thing you can do is file issues with Premier Support. External customers and developers can carry much more weight than us employees.

Hi John,
Given that Intel are priding themeselves on the Ultrabooks having these sensors, you would think they [Intel] would be doing everything possible under the sun to ensure they are working correctly, and when issues like these arise, they are dealt with a sense of urgency and fixed.

Cheers,
Dave

Dave,
I agree.

Maybe they (Intel) are actually working really hard on solving this problem (I hope), and all we are missing is some info on the progress...

Peter

We have confirmed there is an unresolved issue with the GPS on the Ultrabook SDP devices provided by Intel to select developers. The quality and accuracy of the Windows location sensor is below our standards. The Location API will only return good data if you are connected to the internet. We don’t recommend relying on the GPS location data from the SDP devices for location related app development & testing. This issue has been updated with Premier Support and more information and inquiry regarding your Intel provided SDP can be found there.

I would like to highlight another issue.

Due to the NDA in place on the Intel SDP we need to direct further questions to Premier Suppot rather than this forum. Thanks for engaging and raising the discussion.

Quote:

norman-chou (Intel) wrote:

I would like to highlight another issue.

Due to the NDA in place on the Intel SDP we need to direct further questions to Premier Suppot rather than this forum. Thanks for engaging and raising the discussion.

Hi Norm,

Thanks for the great support on this one.

I completely agree that the issues are best handled at the Premier Support site.

Peter

Off to Premier Support now. Thanks to all and thanks to this community for pushing the topic enough to get it escalated.

David

Off to Premier Support now. Thanks to all and thanks to this community for pushing the topic enough to get it escalated.

David

Ok - my fault - I clicked on submit twice. Is there any way to delete a post?

I don't think it's good to delete, because for somebody it can be useful.

Hugs

MC

For those who wish to develop location-based apps but don't have a system with a working GPS, I have started a three-part blog series on how you can use an external GPS device as a Windows Location Sensor, including for use in Windows Store Apps.

Part 1 is out: No GPS? No problem! Using GPSDirect to develop location-aware apps

Hi John,

Many thanks.

David

I just published the final blog in this series. Part 3 shows how you can use your Android phone as a location sensor for the Location API.

Hi John,

Good articles.
Thanks.

Peter

Resurrecting the topic..
you had the same problem with tablet latitude 10?

Hi André,

I suspect the Latitude 10 doesn't have a GPS sensor.  Similarly, the lack of GPS sensor stopped me buying a Surface Pro.

It seems manufacturers of Windows 8 machines rely on location services using WiFi.  I assume the rational is that the only way of obtaining internet acces is via WiFi.  Apple and phones have GPS sensors as they have 3G/4G internet access or they are cutdowns designs of products that have 3G/4G access.

Very shortsighted in my opinion.

 

David 

OT- it really stifles conversations when posts need to be approved. 

David

David,,

The Latitude 10 have sensor, is  Broadcom BCM47511.my problem is that the sensor is only starting. see photo:

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/10/oh5w.png/

The Latitude 10 has the sensor, is the Broadcom BCM47511. My problem is that the sensor is only starting. see photo: h tt p :/ / imageshack.us/f/10/oh5w.png /

Hi André,

Maybe the sensor hub driver is at fault?  Have you checked with Dell?

 

David

Hi David,

I Changed and Updated all drives and this problem no resolved.

I believe that problem the hardware.

Hi André,

Can you upload a readable file - see my attached example. 

David

Fichiers joints: 

Fichier attachéTaille
Télécharger gps.png127.08 Ko

David,

Sorry, but I not understand

Hi André,

The file you posted was very blurred and difficult to read so Alt+Prnt Scrn the window and copy clipboard to Paint or whatever, save the file and then upload on forum.  Try to capture as much as possible.

Or even better, run PSR, start record, click around your sensors to view the information, press stop and then post zip file.  Make sure nothing sensitive showing anywhere on your desktop.

 

Best regards,

 

David

Ok, I maybe now is better.

Fichiers joints: 

Fichier attachéTaille
Télécharger captura-de-tela-1.png73.66 Ko

Can you click on the '+' by the broadcom and capture the properties below report interval (PSR is probably simpler to use here).

 

David

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