GPA 2.2/3.0: GPA issues with 945 graphics - currently crashes Frame Analyzer

GPA 2.2/3.0: GPA issues with 945 graphics - currently crashes Frame Analyzer

imagem de richardbroadhurst

I am trying to optimise my 3D app for atom/945 for the Intel Atom Developer Program but IGPA crashes when trying to analyse the captures.

Are there any plans to support 945 with IGPA or at least make it not crash?

Various configs and crash reports attached.

ric

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Para obter mais informações sobre otimizações de compiladores, consulte Aviso sobre otimizações.
imagem de Neal P (Intel)

Hello Richard,

Though GPA doesn't officially support your configuration, I'll do a quick check on this.

It wasn't clear from your message what caused Frame Analyzer to abort. Did Frame Analyzer abort when loading the file, or when you attempted to perform a specific operation within this program after having successfully loaded the capture file? In any case, Frame Analyzer will usually trap the error and create an XML error report file -- please include a copy of this XML file in your reply.

Also, I took the frame capture file you supplied and was able to successfully load this into GPA Frame Analyzer on another graphics system. Therefore, I'll need some additional information from you before being able to look at this further:

  • please verify that your installation of GPA works ok by seeing if you encounter similiar problems when running the gpasample.exe program (a copy of this utility can be found in the default GPA installation area)
  • please provide more detailed configuration information by running the gpa_system_inspector.exe utility and attaching this file to your post (this utility is again found in the default installation area)
  • to help isolate this issue, have you been able to successfully run this on other graphics systems (or if not, do you have access to another system to test this with?)

thanks!

Neal

imagem de Neal P (Intel)

Hello,

People have been using GPA with Atom-based systems without crashing, so this is a new issue that you are seeing.

However, I thought of one more thing I just thought of that you can try. It appears that you are displaying a large amount of graphics in this scene. I'm wondering if you are running out of video memory (since GPA also requires some video memory to do its work). So your scene could render just fine normally (that is, without GPA), but when running Frame Analyzer I'm wondering if you are exceeding VRAM memory (GPA requires 512MB of VRAM for this very reason). One way to find out if VRAM is an issue in your situation is to significantly reduce the number of objects in your scene, and see if GPA works.

Please let me know what you find out.

Regards,

Neal

ps-> Also, please verify that you are not making any DX 10.1 calls (as we've found some instances where we are not able to trap all 10.1 calls).

imagem de richardbroadhurst
The gpasample's capture also crashes the analyser when it tries to load the file. 945 can only share up to 242MB on XP and 256MB on vista (don't know about win7). I can't find any .xml error reports, not in program files nor where my exe is nor %APPDATA%... System Inspector Environment:
(Intel GPA System Inspector)
Windows XP Home Edition, 32-bit DEP disabled
Num Processors: 2
Memory: 1014MB
Driver 0:
Device: Mobile Intel 945 Express Chipset Family
Provider: Intel Corporation
Date: 2-15-2008
Version: 6.14.10.4926
VendorId: 8086
ProductId: 27a6
Stepping: 3
No support for GPA Instrumentation
Driver 1:
Device: Mobile Intel 945 Express Chipset Family
Provider: Intel Corporation
Date: 2-15-2008
Version: 6.14.10.4926
VendorId: 8086
ProductId: 27ae
Stepping: 3
No support for GPA Instrumentation
GPA install directory: C:Program FilesIntelGPA v2.2
GPA version: 2.2.93736
imagem de Neal P (Intel)

Hello,

Thanks for the additional information.

By the fact that you can't even get the small sample program to work would make me think that vram might not be the issue here.

However, one thing I've noticed is that you are using an old graphics driver.

Download these drivers by using Microsoft Internet Explorer* to browse to the graphics driver update page. This page runs a script that examines your system configuration, then updates the Intel Integrated Graphics drivers to the latest version. If the atuomatic scan doesn't work, please try to manually download the latest driver.

So please try with this graphics driver and let me know your results.

Regards,

Neal

imagem de richardbroadhurst

One of the first things i tried was checking the driver, but it said (as it still does):


Product Detected Mobile Intel 945 Express Chipset Family
Current Driver Installed 6.14.0010.4926
Your driver is current. Manually checking shows that I am on the latest driver listed (14324 from 2008). Has anyone else with an nc10 managed to get IGPA to analyse?
imagem de Neal P (Intel)

Ok, so it seems that most of the obvious things to check you've already taken care of. Since you can create the capture file but just not read it does provide some useful info, especially if you can't get the gpasample capture file to load.

I trying to find an NC10 internally so that we can test internally ourselves with your capture file (or if not an NC10, a similarly-configured system with the 945 gfx).

I'll let you know what I've been able to find out on this.

Thanks for your patience on this!

Regards,

Neal

ps-> Also, I'm assuming that you are running GPA in a single-system mode (that is, both Frame Analyzer and your game are running on the NC10)?

imagem de richardbroadhurst

Thanks for all the effort.


I am running in single system mode. I do use IGPA at work and highly recommend it. ric
imagem de Neal P (Intel)

Richard,

Thanks for your patience on this; I'm still searching internally within our facility to see if someone has a similar configuration to yours. By the way, I know we have users of GPA with 945 graphics (but not a netbook configuration) and others with Atom-based netbooks (but not 945 graphics), so I'll need us to find something that's a closer match.

If I am not able to find a similar configuration within the next few days, I will look at other options for trying to get this issue resolved.

Neal

PS-> While I'm waiting for a system, would you be able to run in a dual-system mode (that is, target machine is the netbook, and run GPA System Analyzer from another system)? This is only a small chance of success (10% or so), but if you have time it might help eliminate another possible issue.

imagem de Neal P (Intel)

Hello,

Sorry again for the delay. I've checked and we don't have a similar configuration available for testing by the GPA team, so we've ordered one for testing and it should be delivered to us this Thursday. Though not the same exact system (ours is from a different manufacturer), it has the same chipset and graphics as your configuration, so this should be sufficient for our use.

We'll start looking at this issue when the system gets here.

Last but not least, is there a specific deadline that you are working to meet? If so, I want to see what we can do to help you meet this deadline.

Regards,

Neal

imagem de richardbroadhurst
Sorry, I have been on other stuff.

I will try the dual mode, but probably not until thursday.

Thank you for all your effort.

This is some personal work, possiblyfor the IADP, so no immediate hurry.

Thanks,

ric

imagem de richardbroadhurst
I tried the remote option and that is the same, failing and then loosing connection.

ric

imagem de Neal P (Intel)

Ric,

Thanks for the info... I'll pass this along to the team.

Regards,

Neal

imagem de doyoulikethreads

I get the same results on my netbook:
- Win7 Ultimate 32-bit
- Atom N270
- Mobile Intel 945 (driver 8.15.10.1930)

I can run the DX9 samples just fine. However, gpasample.exe does not run. Remotely running system analyzer does work... but frame captures cause crashes.

Thanks for any help!!

imagem de Neal P (Intel)
Quoting - doyoulikethreads I get the same results on my netbook:
- Win7 Ultimate 32-bit
- Atom N270
- Mobile Intel 945 (driver 8.15.10.1930)

I can run the DX9 samples just fine. However, gpasample.exe does not run. Remotely running system analyzer does work... but frame captures cause crashes.

Hello,

When you say that you can run the DX9 samples OK, do you mean that you are able to run the DX9 samples OK with GPA System Analyzer, and then save a capture file and load it ok into GPA Frame Analyzer?

Though you are having problems with gpasample with GPA (GPA System Analyzer crashes when creating a capture file), are you able to run gpasample without GPA?

Thanks in advance for providing the additional info I'm requesting.

Regards,

Neal

imagem de doyoulikethreads
Quoting - Neal P (Intel)

Hello,

When you say that you can run the DX9 samples OK, do you mean that you are able to run the DX9 samples OK with GPA System Analyzer, and then save a capture file and load it ok into GPA Frame Analyzer?

Though you are having problems with gpasample with GPA (GPA System Analyzer crashes when creating a capture file), are you able to run gpasample without GPA?

Thanks in advance for providing the additional info I'm requesting.

Regards,

Neal

I can not get frame capture to work with anything. The DX samples successfully starts up and runs (with or without system analyzer). I can run system analyzer (remotely only) on the DX samples. The gpasample will not run at all (with or without system analyzer).

I get the same behavior for frame capture as richard.broadhurst;it mostly crashes and I can create a frame capture file every now and again... but it doesn't load into frame analyzer.

imagem de Neal P (Intel)

Hello,

Thanks for the info... this is very helpful information!

Regards,

Neal

imagem de doyoulikethreads

Has there been any progress on this topic? Thanks!

imagem de Neal P (Intel)
Quoting - doyoulikethreads
Has there been any progress on this topic? Thanks!

Here's an update on what's been happening on this...

First of all, over the holidays we acquired a netbook system similar in configuration to the ones noted here, and we've been able to duplicate the problem you encountered.

It appears that the GPA code has embedded some timeouts in various places in case certain operations take longer than expected. Unfortunately, with these netbooks we are finding that various operations are in fact taking longer than we expect, so the timeout causes the error which we are reporting.

The development team is in the process of re-evaluating all the places where we check for timeouts to verify whether these values are (a) reasonable and/or (b) needed at all.

I'll be getting back to you once this evaluation has been completed.

Thanks for your patience on this issue!

Regards,

Neal

imagem de richardbroadhurst

Any chance this will be ready for DevMob2010?

imagem de Neal P (Intel)

I'll check with the development team on the current status of this item.

Regards,

Neal

imagem de Neal P (Intel)

Just checked, and no committed "fix by" date for this yet. (sorry!)

Regards,

Neal

imagem de richardbroadhurst

Do you have an y updates on this please?

imagem de Neal P (Intel)

Ric,

Thanks for the update -- as you suggest let's wait until the end of next week before trying this again.

Regards,

Neal

imagem de Neal P (Intel)

Ric,

You have a great knack for timing things just about right...

We've just released version 3.0 -- you'll get an email about the new version in the next couple of days, so I wouldn't do anything until you've had a chance to try things with the new version of the code.

Hopefully you get better results with this new version, and we look forward to some info on your experiences using it.

Regards,

Neal

imagem de richardbroadhurst

Thanks, I have just installed 3.0 but am still having a few issues:

While running the same app from monitor, and then trying to capture with capture, I get a file and an error telling me that the app has quit - even thought it was because i ticked the close and analyse box.

the analyse then fails and tries to save an error report - saving the error report also says that it has failed

I also get a crash with a report/... dialog, which i report to ms.

The logs don't look very interresting:

[TAL][WIN pid=3364][ ec8] Initialize [TAL][WIN pid=3364][ ec8] TAL collector version 2010-02-24. initialized. [TAL][WIN pid=3364][ de4] MODE set to CONTINUOUS

or

[TAL][WIN pid=3604][ a44] Initialize

[TAL][WIN pid=3604][ a44] TAL collector version 2010-02-24. initialized.

Attached is a capture -test_2010_03_07__21_15_31.gpa_frame

This is still the same 945 with the same driver as before - no new one available.

ric

Anexos: 

imagem de richardbroadhurst

DX updated to Feb 2010

adding error xmls

ric

Anexos: 

imagem de Neal P (Intel)

Ric

Thanks for the info -- I'll be looking at this today.

Neal

imagem de Neal P (Intel)

Ric,

I tried playing with this a bit, and it's not clear whether the frame capture file you attached was created properly. In other words, I'm trying to see the issue is that Intel GPA Frame Capture did not correctly create the frame, or Intel GPA Frame Analyzer has an issue reading the file on your system, or neither, or both.

See the attached file (which I was able to load into Intel GPA Frame Analyzer using another graphics chipset and hardware configuration), as it looks like there may be some corruption of the background image, but I can't be sure.

So a couple more questions for you:

  • is the image I've attached similar to what you see if you run your app without Intel GPA? In other words, is the background graphics that I copied here what you expect?
  • is the behavior of Intel GPA Frame Capture and/or Intel GPA Frame Analyzer any different if you don't use the "close frame capture and launch frame analyzer after capture" option (but instead start Intel GPA Frame Analyzer manually)?
  • is the behavior any different if you use another method to capture the frame, such as Intel GPA System Analyzer or a "hot key"?

Thanks!

Neal

Anexos: 

AnexoTamanho
Download 945_capture.png415.26 KB
imagem de richardbroadhurst

The corruption is correct on that image, i sent the capture with clear background turned off by mistak, you should be able to turn it on in playback and it will look like my previous 2.2 captures.

The frames captured as far as i can tell (same/similar size) are always the same regardless of capture method and regardless as to whether quit or not is selected, I would suspect the playing back is the problem (as before).

Have you tried 3.0 on the 945 you bought or tried to play back my capture on it?

ric

imagem de Neal P (Intel)

Ok, thanks for the info... from your description and a visual examination of the capture file it wasn't clear that the issue was still with Intel GPA Frame Analyzer or in the frame capture in the first case.

Now that you've verified that the image is OK, I'll forward it to the developement team to see what they say about this problem.

Regards,

Neal

imagem de Neal P (Intel)

Hello,

The development team has looked at this, and we believe that it may be a duplicate of a similar problem that we are already in the process of analyzing and fixing. If this is what we think, the problem is due to how we access and use the shaders in the 945 graphics chipset.

Thanks for your patience on this one!

Regards,

Neal

imagem de richardbroadhurst

Thanks Neal.

Any chance of xp64 support as we have upgraded a number of work machines and now can't use GPA. ric
imagem de Neal P (Intel)

Ric,

As you know, Windows XP (64-bit) is not supported by Intel GPA, and there are currently no plans to support this platform in future releases.

Instead, most of the game developers have requested that we focus on Windows 7 (or Vista) for 64-bit support, as Windows 7 and Vista appear to be the development platforms that most game developers are using these days, especially for 64-bit (though they'll obviously release games that run on Windows XP).

Regards,

Neal

imagem de richardbroadhurst

I understand; at work, our customers' primary OS is XP with win7 increasing as vista users upgrade to win7 or a few go back to XP.

imagem de Neal P (Intel)

Ric,

Thanks for the info on XP.

I've got a couple of follow-up questions for you on your work flow:

  • As you have customers running on the three primary Microsoft opsys platforms (XP*, Vista*, and Windows 7*), do you run Intel GPA for your app on all three of these platforms, or do you run Intel GPA on just one platform (and then assume that the results from Intel GPA will be similar on the other platforms)?
  • Do you expect your work flow to change over time as Windows 7 eventually becomes the predominant opsys?

The reason I'm asking is having a better understand of how the tool is used will enable us to do a better job of meeting customer needs -- and hopefully you had a chance to fill out the Intel GPA survey, as the team has been reviewing the responses we've received.

Neal

imagem de richardbroadhurst

At work we have more than twice as many XP 32 users than all win7 (mostly 64) and twice as many of them than all Vista and others put together, so we test mostly on win7 64 and XP 32 (I have personally only run GPA on XP32).

For personal projects, I optimise for the min-spec so that I can run on the maximum configurations, with XP32/945/Atom my primary target. For netbook / notebook, I will be sticking with 32bit/DX9feb2010 for the next couple of years and probably move on when XP drops below 15%. Again, from a personal perspective, I can't wait for win7/.Net/wpf to be replaced with something more usable and efficient - I doubt we will ever see those days again though - win98se, dx7, vs6, win2k/XP, dx9 - maybe i have my rose tinted spec's on again. ric
imagem de Neal P (Intel)

Thanks for the information... I'm passing this info to the product planning team.

Regards,

Neal

imagem de richardbroadhurst

Any news on when the 945 might be supported? ric

imagem de Neal P (Intel)

Hello,

Thanks for your patience while we worked on this... There will be some limited capabilities available for this device on Vista and Win7 in an upcoming release of the product.

That's about all I can say for now, but when I have more detailed info I'll post something here.

Regards,

Neal

imagem de Neal P (Intel)

Hello,

the latest version of Intel GPA, Version 3.0 build 117271, was just released on May 20th, 2010. This latest version includes specific updates for this class of graphics devices for Windows Vista and Windows 7 (but limitations of the XP driver preclude our being able to support this device on this platform).

Hopefully these improvements will allow many of you to use Intel GPA on this platform, so please let us know your experiences with this latest release.

Regards,

Neal

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